Puppy having puppies ?

Question:

Quote:  One of our reasons for breeding early was to spay early to reduce the risk of cancer etc. Dumb. Cancer chances are reduced if the bitch is spayed before the second heat *OR* before any pregnancies. Nobody with any brain thought differently in 1987, either. You were sadly misled. Jane Webb Mudpie & Moonpie

Response:

O> There was nothing wrong with breeding at 9 months.  We sought the advice of O> an extremely respectable breeder, and it was all done properly etc etc. Except, of course, that she was too young for such tests as OFA evaluation of hips and elbows. Although OFA will give a preliminary evaluation, it does not give a permanent rating until age 2 years +. Which is why I rather down the quality of the breeder. S/he may be a well-known, i.e., large, commercial kennel, and that certainly is no recommendation. O> We’ve bred before that and after that with different dogs, but usually O> 2nd/3rd season and after.  One of our reasons for breeding early was to spay O> early to reduce the risk of cancer etc.   And so you wouldn’t know about any potential genetic problems,   and could claim you bred in all innocence? avrama & shomer .. nfx v2.7 [C0000] If I’ve one life to lead, let my lead be on a Dobe.    

Response:

Hiya Amelia, Well–which was it though? "Nothing wrong with breeding at 9 months" or "should’ve waited until 18 months"?? And why would you want to spay her right after breeding? I only ask these stickly questions as I am concerned when dogs are being bred when they should not be. I am no breeder, but I question just how "respectable" that breeder that you or your parents knew/know is. From what I know, extensive genetic testing has to be done before breeding any pair (depending on breed: hips, eyes, diseases linked to the specific breed) so that these are not inherited by said pups. THese tests can often not be completed until said bitch is at least two years. Also, shouldn’t a bitch or stud be deemed best of a breed or at least conform to the standard of the breed before breeding? There are so many unwanted pups already….like the pups of those pups of those pups and so on.  Not something to be taken lightly, I should think. I imagine that bitch was not even out of puppy class long enough yet to be deemed anything in terms of formal obedience, working or show titles yet?? That is why I asked about the spaying. If she was a mama dog who was worth breeding, and who would give birth to future champions or excellent working dogs, I wouldn’t think she would be spayed. Unless she was bred just so that she could give birth to one litter (that myth that dogs should be bred once)? I only posted to this as I am genuinely concerned that you or your parents were still breeding for all the wrong reasons. Thats all—might be a good idea to read up on this topic on your own. Cheers, Cin & Sid (85# spoiled lapdog—waiting for his gorgeous red sis to come home—7 days and counting!!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > There was nothing wrong with breeding at 9 months.  We sought the advice of > an extremely respectable breeder, and it was all done properly etc etc. > It was, admitedly not the optimine time to breed her – we should have waited > till about 18 months, but we did it on the ‘okaying’ of a well-know breeder > (who we no longer use), and maybe they thought differently in 1987! > We’ve bred before that and after that with different dogs, but usually > 2nd/3rd season and after.  One of our reasons for breeding early was to spay > early to reduce the risk of cancer etc. >>>>>we bred one of ours at 9 months – she had a large litter of healty >pups, and >we still have one (tho she’s far from being a pup now at 12!) >Amelia   >>>>>> >Oh no, Amelia….No points with this one. >But you are 16….so, well..just don’t give out your parents names, k? >Cheers, >Cin & Sid (85# spoiled lapdog—waiting for his gorgeous red sis to come >home—8 days and counting!!)

Response:

: Since a woman can technically go through an entire pregnancy and birth : without ever having had her first menses, is this also possible for a : canine bitch? To become pregnant without ever going into heat? A bitch must be in season to become pregnant. It may not be very obvious, so the owner may not notice, but bitches can’t get pregnant until they are in season. The biology of human menstruation is different from that of canine estrus. April with Levi, Caper, and Epic, the Border Collie Hurricanes

Response:

Thanks for the in-depth reply, Cindy (as per usual) Very informative….You could say I am somewhat of an expert on the female reproductive system but really know squat about the canine equivalent. Interesting stuff. I didn’t know all the details about the queens usual mating ritual but I have heard the barbed penis thing and how she will turn around to attack him after each withdrawal? YOWCH. Maybe we do have it good ALso, If anyone has the patience to answer, could they let me know what goes on when dogs tie? I have seen this as a small child and it was terrifying to me (hahaha!)…How long does that last? Do dogs have to do this for conception to occur? This is all just simple, naivete on my part and I am just curious (yes, weird things peak (?) my interest) so a good book title would do just as well too. Thanks. Cheers, Cin & Sid (85# spoiled lapdog—waiting for his gorgeous red sis to come home—8 days and counting!!)

Response:

There was nothing wrong with breeding at 9 months.  We sought the advice of an extremely respectable breeder, and it was all done properly etc etc. It was, admitedly not the optimine time to breed her – we should have waited till about 18 months, but we did it on the ‘okaying’ of a well-know breeder (who we no longer use), and maybe they thought differently in 1987! We’ve bred before that and after that with different dogs, but usually 2nd/3rd season and after.  One of our reasons for breeding early was to spay early to reduce the risk of cancer etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>>we bred one of ours at 9 months – she had a large litter of healty >pups, and >we still have one (tho she’s far from being a pup now at 12!) >Amelia   >>>>>> >Oh no, Amelia….No points with this one. >But you are 16….so, well..just don’t give out your parents names, k? >Cheers, >Cin & Sid (85# spoiled lapdog—waiting for his gorgeous red sis to come >home—8 days and counting!!)

Response:

Thanks, Cindy, for answering my questions about "dog sex". No more, I promise.  :) On the same note, everyone, I heard something horrible awhile ago that absolutely twisted my insides. A friend of mine that I haven’t seen in awhile (when she happened to move into an unsavoury environment with her SO and a couple of kidlings) recently had 12 (yes, 12) puppies born to a dog she has.  When I visited her last, her house was awful, filthy and decrepid. They were going through hard times and decided to (make it a real family!) get a great dane mix puppy (huge).  Sure, the dog was fed (whoknowswhat) and "cared" for, but bare minimum you know.  I felt horrible for the dog and it sickened me to be there. THEN, I recently hear she brought in another stray off the street who happened to be pregnant (at least she didn’t actively breed her). The poor mama bitch had 12 pups. She said she could get rid of them all. We tried to talk to her til blue in the face. But she started giving them away at 5 weeks anyway. SHe has 7 left and they are 7 weeks. *SIGH,RANT,ARGH!!!*. Poor mama gets cheap food too. But, she is a willful woman and won’t take anything, including advice…so I just can’t go back there. HS won’t do anything as the dogs are "cared for" and not in danger. However, I am going to phone again, and we are keeping an eye on things. It just makes my heart ache. Thanks for listening. Cheers, Cin & Sid (85# spoiled lapdog—waiting for his gorgeous red sis to come home—7 days and counting!!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->ALso, If anyone has the patience to answer, could they let me know what >goes on when dogs tie? I have seen this as a small child and it was >terrifying to me (hahaha!)…How long does that last? Do dogs have to do >this for conception to occur? This is all just simple, naivete on my part >and I am just curious (yes, weird things peak (?) my interest) so a good >book title would do just as well too. Thanks. > The tie is the part where the male dog is ejaculating.  They don’t do > it in a burst like human males, but sort of a dribble over several > minutes.  A tie makes the breeding more likely to "take" (result in > puppies), but there are plenty of successful breedings where a tie did > not happen or was only of a short duration. > Wilcox and Wilkowicz have an excellent book on dog breeding. > –Cindy > — >    WAGGERY   U-CD Terrell’s Chocolate Deduction CGC CDX–Hershe   LABRADORS >                  KT’s Before the Mast–Dana >    *** Southern California Lab Rescue: http://www.geocities.com/~sclrr/ ***

Response:

Hello, At what age can a dog have puppies? Got home tonight and my 4

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