need help with an incontinence issue that has me stumped…

Question:

> The site that RABSparks recommended is very good ~ though the music got me > weeping! > Every thing I have come acoss describes it’s nearest human equivelent as MS > ~ and from the little I know of MS, it seems to follow suit… yesterday she > was struggling, walking a little drunk from behind, I heard her stumble on > the stairs & later on in the day her legs buckled under her ~ not so much > falling over as falling down… today, she’s as fine as ever – looking > great.

how interesting that it really does wax and wane – based on your description, i would bet that you don’t know from day to day what situation your dog will be in. that’s got to be quite stressful. my heart goes out to you both. i have a friend who looks after my dog quite a bit, and she has ms. she was the one who first suggested to me that his problems may be neurological-based as she has problems with getting due warning before having to go to the bathroom. > I don’t know too much about Vislas, apart from the fact that they are a > fairly generalised gundog from Hungary and are the most beautiful copper red > ~  other breeds have been diagnosed with it ~ when I first posted that > Stoney had been diagnosed in alt.animals.dog one of the regulars there > forwarded a post from a lady who’s Doberman had been diagnosed. Weims are > mentioned in http://www.siriusdog.com/deg_myelo.htm :Vislas do share many > physical characteristics (only ever from seeing them in picture books) to > both breeds ~ but you say that your dog has already suffered some spinal > damage…

well, i would guess if weims can get it, vizslas can too – vizsla stock was used to create weimaraners…vizslas are a very old breed. > I guess it’s worth asking your vet, but one of the big things I keep reading > is about keeping up exercise… something I wouldn’t want to do with a dog > that has a backbone disk problem without being sure I couldn’t do additional > damage. Perhaps this is the most impotrtant thing you should consider asking > your vet.

well, his disc is supposedly stable now, so he is now able to have off-leash fun again. he is arthritic, so it is still not all out galloping around. i am taking him to his specialist next tuesday, and will discuss these issues with him then. while he’s not as well-versed in neurology, i know that he can refer me to someone who is. i was hoping that someone could just tell me that when they put their dog on that food that they had problems with fecal incontinence…so far it doesn’t seem like that. thanks again, lauren

Response:

hi there, thanks for your information…am i mistaken in thinking that it sounds like ms for dogs? what is interesting is that my dog did have elevated protein levels from his spinal tap, but it was attributed to the bulging disc in his spine. is there somewhere that lists symptoms for this disease? i wonder if my dog has it since it sounds like it is unknown in breeds other than german shepherds. good luck with your girl – i am sorry to hear that she is going through that. it is so difficult to make those quality of life decisions! thanks again, lauren

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hi there, > thanks for your information…am i mistaken in thinking that it sounds > like ms for dogs? what is interesting is that my dog did have elevated > protein levels from his spinal tap, but it was attributed to the > bulging disc in his spine. > is there somewhere that lists symptoms for this disease? i wonder if > my dog has it since it sounds like it is unknown in breeds other than > german shepherds. > good luck with your girl – i am sorry to hear that she is going > through that. it is so difficult to make those quality of life > decisions! > thanks again, > lauren

The site that RABSparks recommended is very good ~ though the music got me weeping! Every thing I have come acoss describes it’s nearest human equivelent as MS ~ and from the little I know of MS, it seems to follow suit… yesterday she was struggling, walking a little drunk from behind, I heard her stumble on the stairs & later on in the day her legs buckled under her ~ not so much falling over as falling down… today, she’s as fine as ever – looking great. I don’t know too much about Vislas, apart from the fact that they are a fairly generalised gundog from Hungary and are the most beautiful copper red ~  other breeds have been diagnosed with it ~ when I first posted that Stoney had been diagnosed in alt.animals.dog one of the regulars there forwarded a post from a lady who’s Doberman had been diagnosed. Weims are mentioned in http://www.siriusdog.com/deg_myelo.htm :Vislas do share many physical characteristics (only ever from seeing them in picture books) to both breeds ~ but you say that your dog has already suffered some spinal damage… I guess it’s worth asking your vet, but one of the big things I keep reading is about keeping up exercise… something I wouldn’t want to do with a dog that has a backbone disk problem without being sure I couldn’t do additional damage. Perhaps this is the most impotrtant thing you should consider asking your vet. Diana — See my dog Stone ~ July 5th on the birthday calendar. The aad group web site: http://www.ourdogs.chilly-hippo.co.uk (In the UK ‘lugs’ or ‘lug ‘oles’ is slang for ears ~ and no dog has a finer set than my Stone!)

Response:

Diana: If your dog has been diagnosed with DM, then you def need to touch base with a good friend to the disease. Also, you should check out her website for the latest on the disease (http://www.mzjf.com/). DM is often diagnosed "by exclusion". That is, the vets run every test they can think of for everything else then conclude that since the dog doesn’t have "everything else", then it has to be DM. Recently I ran into a woman whose dog was diagnosed with DM only to find that he had Lymes. They ran everything, including an MRI, but didn’t run a Lymes test! Good luck. I’ve been where you are and it’s one very slippery slope. Hopefully there have been some improvements in treatment over the past five years. Regards, rick

Response:

i have an approx. 10 year old vizsla – male, neutered. in early december 2001 completely out of the blue he lost most control of his hind legs. he went through numerous tests – mri, spinal tap, and had a lot of prednisone. end result was that he had a bulging disc in his spine and was put on strict restricted activity for several months afterwards. his gait is a little funny at this point, but he seems to have 99% control again of his hind legs. sometime in late feb./early march, he started to have nightmarish problems with diarrhea. after a bland diet and no improvement, i took him to the vet. he was given one medication (sorry, the name escapes me) for a week with the idea that it was colitis, and no improvement. was given flagyl for a week, and no improvement. he stayed on flagyl and the vet took him off his bland diet and put him onto hill’s w/d prescription (high fiber) diet, and there was an incredible improvement within 24 hours – perfectly formed stool. i just about cried – i was so happy to see this. from this point on, he would defecate about 6-9 times a day, whereas it used to be about 3. anyway, over the past two weeks or so, i’ve had problems with fecal incontinence with him. it’s as if he doesn’t know he has to go until it’s on it’s way out. it is somewhat intermittent, but strange all the same – we can be outside and he can have plenty of opportunities to go, then i put him in the car and 2 minutes later a bad smell comes up front and guess what? once he’s done it, he’s visibly disturbed by the fact that it’s happened – he knows not to defecate indoors (and never, ever did in the car until recently), but it’s as if he can’t help it. i don’t punish him – it’s completely out of character for him and if he can’t help it, he can’t help it. i asked the vet if based on his previous problem with the bulging disc if it is possible that he has neurological problems that is leading to the incontinence (which by the way is only fecal – not urinary) but he said that if he were having neurological problems, he would be losing control of his hind legs again. the vet is really stumped as he said that normally incontinence would be happening if he was having diarrhea, that’s it’s really weird that his stool is normal but he can’t control it. so does anyone have any idea as to what may be going on? something to suggest to my vet as a possibility or something to do more research on? i’m just wondering (and hoping) that someone out there has been through something similar. thanks!

Response:

[..] > so does anyone have any idea as to what may be going on? something to > suggest to my vet as a possibility or something to do more research > on? i’m just wondering (and hoping) that someone out there has been > through something similar. > thanks!

I can’t help you too much I’m afraid, but my dog, Stone (see sig) has just been diagnosed with CDRM ~ common in German Shepherds, but has also been found in a few other breeds. The symptoms we have been told to expect sound very similar to what you are experiencing. I’ve found a few sites on it ~ some very complicated to understand, others a little simpler ~ this one tookl me a few goes to read and was given to me on another group by Michael A. Ball (I think I’ve seen him post here a few times too): http://www.siriusdog.com/deg_myelo.htm (CDRM is the UK name for it). I’m very sorry to hear that you are having so much trouble. I know my girl is not going to take to incontinence and I think that, totally for her sake, that will be the time to say good bye… but I will leave it to her to tell me. It’s a shame we put so much emphasis on ‘thou shalt not mess the house’ that it makes it even harder for the poor soles when they do have problems. I will definitely train my next dog to a ‘doggy loo’ so that in emergencys, at least some of the guilt factor is removed. Poor Stone has had a few accidents through her time with us, always down to a dicky tummy, and I’ve always praised her for the mess… she won’t have it though and will do her all to try and tidy up after herself. Good luck with your boy and I sincerely hope you can find some way of relieving him of these problems, Diana — See my dog Stone ~ July 5th on the birthday calendar. The aad group web site: http://www.ourdogs.chilly-hippo.co.uk (In the UK ‘lugs’ or ‘lug ‘oles’ is slang for ears ~ and no dog has a finer set than my Stone!)

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