All this "What breed for me" discussion
Question:
[...] > Hey, I think my breed is the best in the world, but I spend more time > talking people OUT of buying one than recommending them!
God, me too! Robby and the Jack Russells
Response:
>>Today at Chapters, while I was standing there
letting Skye meet new people, I met a woman who just bought a working lines Australian Shep. She was complaining that the dog ‘never sits still’, and has torn up her house and her yard. She is sooo sad because she might have to give it up. I wonder anymore if anyone ever takes into consideration what these breeds were *bred* for before buying them?>> When we have new owners bring in a puppy for it’s first exam try to cover lots of things like socialization, "puppy mauling" (getting pups used to being handled) and basic training. Well, a couple of weeks ago I was discussing this with the new owner of a 7 week old Border Collie. This lady is in the room with 4 kids under the age of 10, all screaming, and the puppy was just petrified. The lady tells me "You don’t have to tell me this, I’ve always had dogs." She then proceeds to ask me "What exactly do they cross with a Collie to get a Border Collie? The pet store told me they couldn’t remember." I almost started crying for that sweet little puppy who was doomed to a life chained up in the back yard.
Response:
>>I’ve heard know-nothing people earnestly state >"Oh, Goldens are sooo wonderful with kids! No >matter how much the kids climb/kick/pinch/poke, >the dogs *never* even growl!".
When we run into people who think that the above is the means by which good dogs are measured, we tell them to go buy a Gund. People like this will get a Golden or a Lab, and the kids will do the aforementioned climb/kick/pinch/poke, and some dogs will bite. >One of the things we get to watch out for is that some of the lab/gr >rescue volunteers, particularly the newer ones, will have the SAME >IDEA. Aigh.
Oh yeah. One of the worst disservices that rescue people can do to their breed is to let people think the dogs will tolerate being ridden around the yard, etc. We’re seeing this problem with Greyhounds, which aren’t all tolerant of young kids. Enthusiastic volunteers eager to place every dog, and to see that everyone who wanted a GH got one, have been saying that the dogs are universally great with kids for years, and it’s backfiring. Sally Hennessey
Response:
> I’ve noticed that Golden people, more than, say, doberman people, tend > to talk in terms of their animals being "angels of love," > "fur-children," "GOLDens," etc. It’s slightly nauseating to say the > least, and you just don’t *see* it on the dobe lists. Thank God.
I wonder if a lot of it has to do with all those billions of cute fluffy Golden pups that populate ads everywhere? I am often glad that Frenchie pups, while to me the cutest creatures on the face of the earth, are a very acquired taste for most people. I worry when anyone, who fancies any breed, sees their dogs as being perpetual children. I think it worries me most because so many of the rescue Frenchies I’ve had to work with were regarded in that way, and it’s left up to me to put little "Fluffy", who’s never been told ‘no’ or disciplined in her life because she’s "Just mommy’s widdle angel", through the canine equivalent of boot camp. It was cute when Fluffy growled while a puppy, but when she does it as an adult, it’s off to rescue she goes… Today at Chapters, while I was standing there letting Skye meet new people, I met a woman who just bought a working lines Australian Shep. She was complaining that the dog ‘never sits still’, and has torn up her house and her yard. She is sooo sad because she might have to give it up. I wonder anymore if anyone ever takes into consideration what these breeds were *bred* for before buying them? Carol — French Bulldogs by Bullmarket http://www.bullmarketfrogs.com French Bulldog Fun Zone http://www.frenchbulldogfun.com
Response:
She told > me that "Goldens were bred just be big fluffy > bundles of love", or some such tripe to that effect.
I’ve noticed that Golden people, more than, say, doberman people, tend to talk in terms of their animals being "angels of love," "fur-children," "GOLDens," etc. It’s slightly nauseating to say the least, and you just don’t *see* it on the dobe lists. Thank God. — Robin Nuttall DD Graphix http://www.ddgraphix.com
Response:
>> > For instance, labs and goldens are > > inevitably recommended as good for first timers. >I often wonder how GR/Lab people can stand it.
It’s tough, and I’ve gotten to the point where I just don’t respond her on the ng’s. Labs are active, inquisitive, and can be hard headed. If they have nothing to do they can destroy a house or yard or both in an afternoon. And you can’t imagine HOW MANY wide eyed "we-have-a-house-and-1.5-kids-and-a-picket-fence-and-we’d-like-a-dog to-go-with-that" prospective adoptors we get. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhgggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhh >I’ve heard know-nothing people earnestly state >"Oh, Goldens are sooo wonderful with kids! No >matter how much the kids climb/kick/pinch/poke, >the dogs *never* even growl!".
Not. One of the things we get to watch out for is that some of the lab/gr rescue volunteers, particularly the newer ones, will have the SAME IDEA. Aigh. –Cindy
Response:
> > For instance, labs and goldens are > inevitably recommended as good for first timers.
I often wonder how GR/Lab people can stand it. I’ve heard know-nothing people earnestly state "Oh, Goldens are sooo wonderful with kids! No matter how much the kids climb/kick/pinch/poke, the dogs *never* even growl!". Just… yuck. I’ve taken heat from other Frenchie people for stating that I think Frenchies and little kids are almost always a bad idea, and was scolded by a woman last summer when I stated that Goldens were not ‘perfect’ with kids and for old people who want calm, low energy pets. She told me that "Goldens were bred just be big fluffy bundles of love", or some such tripe to that effect. Carol — French Bulldogs by Bullmarket http://www.bullmarketfrogs.com French Bulldog Fun Zone http://www.frenchbulldogfun.com
Response:
toronto-ppp168938.sympatico.ca>: >She told >me that "Goldens were bred just be big fluffy >bundles of love", or some such tripe to that effect.
I never recommend a Golden or Labrador Retriever as a good first pet. There are so many well-trained GRs and Labs "out there" that many people think these breeds come trained out of the womb – and may not bother with training of their own. — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.
Response:
You bring up an interesting point, about the male golden agression. Myself, having heard the all the hype about how wonderful golden’s are & such (not that I don’t believe it…) had a difficult time when I saw my best friend (an obedience/conformation show handler w/ smooth collies) have such a rough time w/ her fiance’s Golden (from field lines as well). They have him and his sister from the same litter, and she is a nearly "perfect" dog, behavior wise (fat as a house due to hypothyroidism). She & I attended obedience together–the very first, most basic–novice beginner obedience, she w/ JR, a 3 yr old neutered male, and my 6 month old Collie/GSD cross. J.R. was literally the terror of the class, along w/ an intact 2 yr old GSP. It was insane at times…and so tiring for my friend, who has tons of "dog experience" (Grew up handling GSD’s, Belgian Mals & Shepherds, Collies & Shelties) J.R. is *finally* beginning to "calm" his agression toward other male dogs (although he was always great w/ my pup), which is a relief! I just remember how difficult it was for her, and how no one would believe the way he would behave until they saw him. You bring up such good points in your message. Shelly, Coda & Guiness…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Breed generalizations are very useful, but for all the first timers who ask for > advice there need to be some caveats. For instance, labs and goldens are > inevitably recommended as good for first timers. However, as one who has had > goldens, I can assure that my field bred golden would not have made it past 15 > months in most homes before ending up in rescue. She was twice the handful of > my aussie who is not often recommended for first timers. Likewise, my male > golden was aggressive with other males – an increasingly common thing in > goldens. Yet, when people heard this they were amazed that a golden would ever > fight with other dogs. > These are just small examples of how vast the genes can be and that you need to > delve much deeper than just the breed. There are labs and then there are labs. > There are Tervs and there are Tervs. > In the same vein, if a first timer is absolutely convinced that they want an > "X", the typical "not recommended for first timers", they can probably work > hard to find the dog that would fit into their lives. For example, the recent > ACD conversation. I have met ACDs that would fit into the novice owner’s life. > So, if they are willing to work a little harder than just "what breed", they > could find that dog. > This is very common sense for experienced dog people, I realize, but many > novice owners seem to think that if they find the breed, they are done. And it > isn’t that simple, and this may be some of the reason that so many labs and > goldens end up in rescue for instance. I realize that most dogs end up in > rescue because these people shouldn’t have dogs at all outside the stuffed toy > variety. The neighbor across the street got a golden, hyper as hell, gone by 6 > months (to a great home, thnakfully). > Anyway, there is more homework to do than deciding on the breed. The > differences between individuals within the breed are greater than the > differences between breeds. And yes, breed generalizations are useful. Just > don’t stop there.
Response:
> Breed generalizations are very useful, but for all the first timers who ask for > advice there need to be some caveats. For instance, labs and goldens are … > delve much deeper than just the breed. There are labs and then there are labs. > There are Tervs and there are Tervs.
In many ways, it is much, much harder work to find a well-bred Lab or Golden with predictable qualities, than it is to find a good example of a less popular breed. If I were a retriever person, I would be happy with a field-bred Lab, but I know that’s the last thing most people who want ‘just a good pet’ would want. And I have certainly met plenty of Goldens who were not very Golden-like (ie dog agressive, protective, no retrieve drive, etc.!). I think about getting a different breed one day, but the amount of research I still need to do is kind of overwhelming! It took us several years to select a breed + decide upon a rescue, and then another couple of years to find a breeder for our second Weimaraner. /Lynne
Response:
Breed generalizations are very useful, but for all the first timers who ask for advice there need to be some caveats. For instance, labs and goldens are inevitably recommended as good for first timers. However, as one who has had goldens, I can assure that my field bred golden would not have made it past 15 months in most homes before ending up in rescue. She was twice the handful of my aussie who is not often recommended for first timers. Likewise, my male golden was aggressive with other males – an increasingly common thing in goldens. Yet, when people heard this they were amazed that a golden would ever fight with other dogs. These are just small examples of how vast the genes can be and that you need to delve much deeper than just the breed. There are labs and then there are labs. There are Tervs and there are Tervs. In the same vein, if a first timer is absolutely convinced that they want an "X", the typical "not recommended for first timers", they can probably work hard to find the dog that would fit into their lives. For example, the recent ACD conversation. I have met ACDs that would fit into the novice owner’s life. So, if they are willing to work a little harder than just "what breed", they could find that dog. This is very common sense for experienced dog people, I realize, but many novice owners seem to think that if they find the breed, they are done. And it isn’t that simple, and this may be some of the reason that so many labs and goldens end up in rescue for instance. I realize that most dogs end up in rescue because these people shouldn’t have dogs at all outside the stuffed toy variety. The neighbor across the street got a golden, hyper as hell, gone by 6 months (to a great home, thnakfully). Anyway, there is more homework to do than deciding on the breed. The differences between individuals within the breed are greater than the differences between breeds. And yes, breed generalizations are useful. Just don’t stop there.
Response:
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