temperament test
Question:
> From the trainers that I’ve already talked to, who have several > seizure alert dogs trained, and have placed many therapy dogs, all > dogs with the right training and temper for such endeavours can be > trained to be seizure alert.
[snip very detailed post about requirements] Ah, Dirtybird, now i see why you’re here in this newsgroup. I wish you every success — it sounds like a wonderful plan, and i know you are on the right track. Based on what i have seen of dog breeds, i’d say that the Golden Retriever — already well known for talent at all kinds of assistance — has the size needed to prop up your son, and will, of course, have "fetch" gestures bred in. I was once trapped in a church for three days with about 200 people in a flooded town (long story) and for the entire time we had no heat and very little food, and we had to sit and sleep on the pews. Right next to us there was a blind woman in a wheelchair with her 6 year olds spayed female Golden — and the dog was simply amazing. She let anyone pet her, but completely ignored them from the standpoint of trying to please them, never face-licking or even looking at them for a long time. Instead, she kept her eyes on her person all the time. She sat or stood quietly for three days and nights. She wore, in addition to her harness, a back-pack filled with her owner’s essentials and a small container of dry dog food, which she ate sapringly. She drank water from a bottle and spilled almost none. When she had to go outside to relieve herself, she pawed the woman once, very gently. The woman explained that she was to go with me, and physically handed her harness to me. I took the dog out, she did her business and turned immediately to come back in, ignoring the 25 or so other dogs tied up outside. When i brought her back, she licked the woman’s hand once to signify she was back on duty, and then she just sat there, waiting for her next task. When we were finally "rescued" by the National Guard, i was on the helicopter that carried off the dog and the blind woman, so i saw how they interacted under freer circumsantces — the wheelchair was motorized and the dog helped the woman direct it by pulling to indicate upcoming obstacles. Well, after that, i never doubted that if i were in need of assistance, i would choose a female Golden Retriever. My husband siva’s dog, by the way, is a Portuguese Water Dog. They are by instinct incredibly "one-person-bonded" dogs and — along with poodles, to which they are closely related — the most intelligent dogs i have ever known. They fetch and they naturally stay in "line of site" with their person at almost all times (so much so that they cannot be kept as outdoor dogs). They are gentle animals and very agile, having been bred for boat-work and as water-retrievers. Because they were bred to work in live in the confined spaces of a small fishing boat, they have an incredibly stoic attitdude toward asking for food or to be let out, so they make good companions for people with limited mobility. The only real reason i bring them up at all is that if your son has allergies, you will want to look into one of the larger non-shedding breeds with "fetch" ability. Because they are non-shedding, PWDs are often tolerated well by people with severe asthma. This, coupled with the fact that they are *much* calmer than those better-known non-shedders, the Standard Poodles, makes them good hospital therapy dogs, but although there is a growing movement to train them for that, i have never heard of one becoming an assistant dog. PWD males can reach 65 lbs, but they don’t have the sheer mass of a Golden Retriever. cat yronwode
Response:
I’ve decided that we would probably be looking at a flat coated retreiver, (partially because there are some EXCELLENT reputable breeders just outside of town, and their dogs are well trained as far as puppie training goes) or a golden retriever, but I have yet to come accross any within our region. Also the woman who is going to be assisting or rather we are going to be getting ‘our’ training from, knows them personally, and we do trust her opinion… So that or maybe a cross with one… but again, those can be tricky if your not sure of the parentage of such mixes… I’ve been reading tonnes about certain breeds specifically mixed… so… who knows…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From the trainers that I’ve already talked to, who have several > seizure alert dogs trained, and have placed many therapy dogs, all > dogs with the right training and temper for such endeavours can be > trained to be seizure alert. > [snip very detailed post about requirements] > Ah, Dirtybird, now i see why you’re here in this newsgroup. I wish you > every success — it sounds like a wonderful plan, and i know you are on > the right track. > Based on what i have seen of dog breeds, i’d say that the Golden > Retriever — already well known for talent at all kinds of assistance — > has the size needed to prop up your son, and will, of course, have > "fetch" gestures bred in. > I was once trapped in a church for three days with about 200 people in a > flooded town (long story) and for the entire time we had no heat and > very little food, and we had to sit and sleep on the pews. Right next to > us there was a blind woman in a wheelchair with her 6 year olds spayed > female Golden — and the dog was simply amazing. She let anyone pet her, > but completely ignored them from the standpoint of trying to please > them, never face-licking or even looking at them for a long time. > Instead, she kept her eyes on her person all the time. She sat or stood > quietly for three days and nights. She wore, in addition to her harness, > a back-pack filled with her owner’s essentials and a small container of > dry dog food, which she ate sapringly. She drank water from a bottle and > spilled almost none. When she had to go outside to relieve herself, she > pawed the woman once, very gently. The woman explained that she was to > go with me, and physically handed her harness to me. I took the dog out, > she did her business and turned immediately to come back in, ignoring > the 25 or so other dogs tied up outside. When i brought her back, she > licked the woman’s hand once to signify she was back on duty, and then > she just sat there, waiting for her next task. When we were finally > "rescued" by the National Guard, i was on the helicopter that carried > off the dog and the blind woman, so i saw how they interacted under > freer circumsantces — the wheelchair was motorized and the dog helped > the woman direct it by pulling to indicate upcoming obstacles. > Well, after that, i never doubted that if i were in need of assistance, > i would choose a female Golden Retriever. > My husband siva’s dog, by the way, is a Portuguese Water Dog. They are > by instinct incredibly "one-person-bonded" dogs and — along with > poodles, to which they are closely related — the most intelligent dogs > i have ever known. They fetch and they naturally stay in "line of site" > with their person at almost all times (so much so that they cannot be > kept as outdoor dogs). They are gentle animals and very agile, having > been bred for boat-work and as water-retrievers. Because they were bred > to work in live in the confined spaces of a small fishing boat, they > have an incredibly stoic attitdude toward asking for food or to be let > out, so they make good companions for people with limited mobility. The > only real reason i bring them up at all is that if your son has > allergies, you will want to look into one of the larger non-shedding > breeds with "fetch" ability. Because they are non-shedding, PWDs are > often tolerated well by people with severe asthma. This, coupled with > the fact that they are *much* calmer than those better-known > non-shedders, the Standard Poodles, makes them good hospital therapy > dogs, but although there is a growing movement to train them for that, i > have never heard of one becoming an assistant dog. PWD males can reach > 65 lbs, but they don’t have the sheer mass of a Golden Retriever. > cat yronwode
Response:
Understandable, most seizure dogs are fully grown when introduced to a child, and are the ones in control of certain behaviour. Our son is extremely gentle, and we feel its best to raise a pup around him, and trained around him and to get my son to bond with it just as much. (cats, he’ll bond with, we had an excellent cat who would lay down on him after he had a seizure, *it was HER boy, not ours*, but alas, car mishap) and we would encourage the puppy’s sleeping in our sons room, which is where its cage, or ‘kennel’ will be.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > | he’s 10… but mentally hes about 5… and he shows signs similar to > autism, > | however he doesn’t have that. > | > I asked his age because, from my *limited knowledge* on seizure dogs, the > best seizure dog would be one that was at least as focused on your boy as on > you–want to sleep with him rather than you, etc. And in my experience, > younger children do not generally get this kind of constant > respect/attention. I theorize that is because the younger kids don’t > interact with the dog as much, tend to maul them a bit, don’t feed them or > walk them, and don’t command as high a place in the social hierarchy of the > household. > My younger brother was always hurt when our dog would leave his room to go > sleep on the foot of my bed. Of course, he had forcible carried the dog > into his room, and in none to comfortable a manner, despite his best > intentions to be loving. > Jeff > Jeff Harper > jeff#doplay.com
Response:
From the trainers that I’ve already talked to, who have several seizure alert dogs trained, and have placed many therapy dogs, all dogs with the right training and temper for such endeavours can be trained to be seizure alert. the dog bonds with my son, he has aseizure, the dog goes weird, not sure what to do, we train it to be comfortable, and to lie down when my son is seizing. then we work in *fetching* , running to get his meds bag, (my son is about 110lbs, and when he seizes ALL his muscles are tensed and he feels double his weight making it hard to move him) then we work in fetching when my son has a seizure to fetch or get one of us or another adult. (such as his grandmother, not ‘just anyone’) More detailed fetching, then during the whole process of training him, when the dog is larger, we train him to roll or prop my son up on his side if the dog can do such a thing pending on how hes laying down. All this training is mainly done with play, then we bring the play into my sons seizures, and eventually, (we are hoping, not all dogs can do this) The dog will be able to predict the seizures, get use to anticipating my sons seizures and give us a warning bark. We will train him to open doors, to stay by my sons sides during his baths, and when he goes to the bathroom, (eventually hes going to want his privacy) sleep with him, walk beside him tethered and keep my son from just wandering off into some strangers house… (one of his new favorite pastimes) Seizure alert dogs really aren’t trained for seizures until they are actually with their owners. there are just certain traits that they have, they have certain training, *fetching* and even rolling over the person if that person requires it… pressing alert buttons, getting the phone etc. the questions that I ask on this ng are merely the tip of what I’ve been actually doing!… I’ve narrowed down the possiblities of dog breed preferable, and the size, but one thing that NO ONE mentions on their sites is roughly what kinds of diets their dogs are on, how much training certain breed require… sorry, the THE BOUVIER DES FLANDRES site that I was on, has a wonderful article on ‘don’t buy a bouvier de flandres if…’… I wish all sites had an article like that. I’ve been in contact with reputable breeders online, (let me tell you how hard it is to find that!) and some are starting to respond back. If we do get a purebreed, it will be one that we have to fill out an application to even look at them, and one that has hip xray and eye certification done, and is breed for temprement and health over looks. I’m on other ngs too, so is my husband… and I’m hoping to get some idea of your types of dogs, what they were like as puppies and turned out as adults, their training etc… my family has ussually had cockerspaniels, and small to medium dogs, and they were never picked for anything other than cuteness… my husbands family has mainly had cockers spaniels too, timex and seico, (watchdogs) big joke with his granpa… *G* I’ve been around barn dogs like shepards, but they must have been mixed with something else to be the size they were… and they were guard dogs… ssoooooo there ya go.. can I POSSIBLY explain anymore to get ANY information other than don’t look here … *G*
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve read in several books that temperament tests of puppies have thus far > proved to be very inaccurate at predicting what the dog’s temperament will > be like at adulthood, with the exception of dominance/submissiveness. > Not so. Sociability, courage, curiosity, responsiveness, etc. are all > consistent predicators, provided the test is a good one, done at the > appropriate time in the pup’s development, by a competent tester. There > are a lot of crummy tests that are really just opinions by trainers > on what good pets should be like. The Volhard test is a bit more precise > a tool than that. You can’t make blanket statements about puppy tests > when they vary so much. > Temperament tests of adult dogs, however, are usually accurate. > The temperament tests on adults are different in nature, but also include > the impact of learned responsed. Puppy tests are purer indications of > basic temperament because there is little learned behavior at 7 weeks. > If I were you, I would get professional help evaluating shelter and breed > rescue dogs for seizure dog traits and pick a young adult rather than a > puppy. > I’m interested – why did you specify seizure alert dog? All I read in > the OP’s question was assistance dog? They are different things and should > be selected for different traits. > There is a set of 2 small books designed for people who need to train their > own assistance dogs, from wheelchairs. They are good background info for > the selection traits needed to learn the required tasks, even if the > training is done by someone else. I believe they are titled "Training Your > Assistance Dog" and they should be available from dogwise.com. > Lynn K.
Response:
> I’ve read in several books that temperament tests of puppies have thus far > proved to be very inaccurate at predicting what the dog’s temperament will > be like at adulthood, with the exception of dominance/submissiveness.
Not so. Sociability, courage, curiosity, responsiveness, etc. are all consistent predicators, provided the test is a good one, done at the appropriate time in the pup’s development, by a competent tester. There are a lot of crummy tests that are really just opinions by trainers on what good pets should be like. The Volhard test is a bit more precise a tool than that. You can’t make blanket statements about puppy tests when they vary so much. > Temperament tests of adult dogs, however, are usually accurate.
The temperament tests on adults are different in nature, but also include the impact of learned responsed. Puppy tests are purer indications of basic temperament because there is little learned behavior at 7 weeks. > If I were you, I would get professional help evaluating shelter and breed > rescue dogs for seizure dog traits and pick a young adult rather than a > puppy.
I’m interested – why did you specify seizure alert dog? All I read in the OP’s question was assistance dog? They are different things and should be selected for different traits. There is a set of 2 small books designed for people who need to train their own assistance dogs, from wheelchairs. They are good background info for the selection traits needed to learn the required tasks, even if the training is done by someone else. I believe they are titled "Training Your Assistance Dog" and they should be available from dogwise.com. Lynn K.
Response:
| he’s 10… but mentally hes about 5… and he shows signs similar to autism, | however he doesn’t have that. | I asked his age because, from my *limited knowledge* on seizure dogs, the best seizure dog would be one that was at least as focused on your boy as on you–want to sleep with him rather than you, etc. And in my experience, younger children do not generally get this kind of constant respect/attention. I theorize that is because the younger kids don’t interact with the dog as much, tend to maul them a bit, don’t feed them or walk them, and don’t command as high a place in the social hierarchy of the household. My younger brother was always hurt when our dog would leave his room to go sleep on the foot of my bed. Of course, he had forcible carried the dog into his room, and in none to comfortable a manner, despite his best intentions to be loving. Jeff Jeff Harper jeff#doplay.com
Response:
> I’m interested – why did you specify seizure alert dog? All > I read in the OP’s question was assistance dog?
The OP, in another thread, said that the dog would be an assistance dog for an epileptic son. — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.
Response:
| | > I’m interested – why did you specify seizure alert dog? All | > I read in the OP’s question was assistance dog? | | The OP, in another thread, said that the dog would be an | assistance dog for an epileptic son. | "dirtybird" Sent: 07/27/2001. As Matt said, the original post stated she was looking for a dog breed or mix to train for her son as an epileptic seizure dog. Her main reason for posting was to get personal accounts from various dog breed and mix owners on the characteristics of their dogs. She planned to use those accounts to help her choose a dog for seizure work. As you know, there are hundreds of breeds and a nearly infinite number of mixes. And as you probably know, extrapolating from a single or few individual accounts of *general* behavior characteristics would in no way allow someone to accurately conclude the suitability of other dogs, especially for *specific* characteristics. I looked up info for her, and every authoritative source (I cited them in my response) indicated that the specific traits desired for seizure work are more present in some individuals than in others, and that it is an individual basis thing and you cannot rely on any specific breed having them to the desired degree simply because of its breed background. I strongly recommend that she get qualified professional help in choosing an ideal individual. Jeff Jeff Harper jeff#doplay.com
Response:
he’s 10… but mentally hes about 5… and he shows signs similar to autism, however he doesn’t have that.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve read in several books that temperament tests of puppies have thus far > proved to be very inaccurate at predicting what the dog’s temperament will > be like at adulthood, with the exception of dominance/submissiveness. > Temperament tests of adult dogs, however, are usually accurate. > If I were you, I would get professional help evaluating shelter and breed > rescue dogs for seizure dog traits and pick a young adult rather than a > puppy. If you do this properly and interview a lot of dogs, I feel you are > more likely to end up with a dog that naturally disposed for seizure service > work. > If you are worried that a shelter/rescue dog won’t bond with, and love, your > son as much as a puppy raised in the family would, relax. As many people > here can tell you, a dog you have saved will become very attached. In fact, > separation anxiety is very high among dogs that have previously been > abandoned. A dog you rescue is very likely to be constantly attentive. > How old is your son, by the way? > Jeff > Jeff Harper > jeff#doplay.com > | I came accross this site that had a simple guideline for testing pups for > | their temperment, it seems though that there may be even some more sites > | with other guidelines pending on breed… if anyone knows of one, please > | post the url here, or e mail me directly with the url!… Thanks… > again, > | I’m the one whos going to be training a pup to become an assistance dog > for > | my son. So anything with information about testing or choosing pups would > | be greatly welcomed. Sometimes you can’t trust breeders, or people who > have > | different ideals on what a dog is used for or bred for… > | > | > | http://www.golden-retriever.com/pat1.html > | > |
Response:
I’ve read in several books that temperament tests of puppies have thus far proved to be very inaccurate at predicting what the dog’s temperament will be like at adulthood, with the exception of dominance/submissiveness. Temperament tests of adult dogs, however, are usually accurate. If I were you, I would get professional help evaluating shelter and breed rescue dogs for seizure dog traits and pick a young adult rather than a puppy. If you do this properly and interview a lot of dogs, I feel you are more likely to end up with a dog that naturally disposed for seizure service work. If you are worried that a shelter/rescue dog won’t bond with, and love, your son as much as a puppy raised in the family would, relax. As many people here can tell you, a dog you have saved will become very attached. In fact, separation anxiety is very high among dogs that have previously been abandoned. A dog you rescue is very likely to be constantly attentive. How old is your son, by the way? Jeff Jeff Harper jeff#doplay.com
| I came accross this site that had a simple guideline for testing pups for | their temperment, it seems though that there may be even some more sites | with other guidelines pending on breed… if anyone knows of one, please | post the url here, or e mail me directly with the url!… Thanks… again, | I’m the one whos going to be training a pup to become an assistance dog for | my son. So anything with information about testing or choosing pups would | be greatly welcomed. Sometimes you can’t trust breeders, or people who have | different ideals on what a dog is used for or bred for… | | | http://www.golden-retriever.com/pat1.html | |
Response:
I came accross this site that had a simple guideline for testing pups for their temperment, it seems though that there may be even some more sites with other guidelines pending on breed… if anyone knows of one, please post the url here, or e mail me directly with the url!… Thanks… again, I’m the one whos going to be training a pup to become an assistance dog for my son. So anything with information about testing or choosing pups would be greatly welcomed. Sometimes you can’t trust breeders, or people who have different ideals on what a dog is used for or bred for… http://www.golden-retriever.com/pat1.html
Response:
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