need to gripe
Question:
>> All my attempts at educating her against > this has fallen on deaf ears. > I still have hope, and keep trying, but so far my sister isn’t > listening. > Terri >I can certainly relate to this. Fortunately it isn’t one of my relatives >but it is very frustrating when *many* of your close friends will >not listen.:( Basically I have given up because many believe >I am an animal loon.
Well, not only does my sister live in another state so I can’t actually rescue her messes, she can’t understand why I let my dogs in the house! I keep trying, though. Maybe someday… Terri
Response:
>wisdom: >OTOH, one of them has a very white, very tall miniature >schnauzer. He’s a nice enough dog but there’s definitely some questionable >breeding in there. >Don’t know about the oversize, but FWIW, the white schnauzer is >recognized in many countries of the world. I’m not sure whether they >actually have FCI acceptance (I have my doubts) or whether they are >considered a variety or an actual separate breed, but they are >definitely recognized in many parts of the world…
Nope, not here as a variety The breed standard is very specific. White is a disqualifying fault. And the clubs are very vocal about not accepting white – have pages of discussion on it as to why it is not acceptable. I suspect that somewhere along the way someone slipped in a little Westie. Perhaps they have bigger litters than schnauzers or there was *some* reason for a puppy mill to give it a try. But as I said, he still is a nice dog so I don’t hold his idiot breeders against him. But it does irritate me that his owners would get a dog from such a place. (The first puppy they got from there was seriously sick so this one is the replacement they were given.) I think these owners are teachable so I intend to work on them before they get another dog. ~~Judy Whether human or dog, it is good to be Alpha Bitch.
Response:
I would 1st get your mom to agree that if she gets a dog, any dog, it is her responsibility to care for it: shots, annual checkups etc. Ask her if she would have been okay if you decided to go under the porch and have children with no doctor? Hey having a dog expecting carries similar responsibility. You need to get the bitch prenatal checkups. You need to plan just in case that c-section is needed and have her vet point out that it probably will be. No bitch in heat should have ever been unsupervised out in the yard and indicate that you also do not see why anyone else should pay for her ignorance. (Though the intact dog should should not have been loose either.) If you are uncomfortable trying to talk to your mom frankly — who will? Tell her you are paying her a compliment by thinking she is young enough to learn new ways of thinking about pet ownership. Yes, times have changed since she was young — many more thousands of wonderful dogs are euthanized and folks have learned that nuetering and spaying is part of responsible pet ownership. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My mom called me today. *frowns* I’m just so P.O’d with her. I’d > tried to convince her to get Dixie spayed… Dixie is her little Shih > Tzu cross. I’d finally convinced her to rescue a Shih Tzu, instead of > breeding Dixie for one of her puppies. My mom wanted two dogs, and had > planned on finding a dog (a Shih Tzu or Toy Poodle) to breed with > Dixie… she was going to keep one of the pups and sell the others. > Well… she wouldn’t spay Dixie (still won’t), but had decided to let me > help her find a little neutered rescue to be her second dog. Then I get > a phone call today. > Aparently a mixed breed male (mom describes him as being an incredibly > ugly dog, I haven’t seen him) dug under their fence, and mom came > outside just in time to see them doing the wild thing. *rolls eyes* "I > just can’t believe this happened in Dixies own yard." I told mom it > could happen in their own yard, but she wouldn’t listen to me then… > So now Dixie is facing a possible pregnancy, with the male being a mixed > breed who weighs at least twice what she does. *shakes head* I’ve > tried explaining to mom the risks that Dixie could be facing, and told > her those include death… but mom will not have her spayed. > I could just shoot her. Dixie does not deserve this. > And get this… My mom, after seeing what happened, took this male into > the house, and left him with Dixie as she did her running around today. > So chances are they’ve probably had a couple more ties. *shakes head* > Grrrr… > Sometimes I just don’t get people. > — > http://zuzubabies.com/members/td
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>I can certainly relate to your story. I am glad you are going through >a breeder that has made you feel like you are jumping through hoops. >That is an excellent sign that the breeder is ethical. >I hope it all works out for you.
I’m really optimistic. None of her suggestions/requests so far have been unreasonable – as a matter of fact they were pretty much what we would have been doing anyway. I think we’re "scoring" pretty well as potentials so far. I just don’t know how many others are on her waiting list. We have an interview this month and I’m sure I’ll have a better idea after that. I’m just getting really eager. It’s taken me two years to get over the last dog’s death (the first time in my life without a dog in the house), and now that I’m ready, I’m ready! ~~Judy Whether human or dog, it is good to be Alpha Bitch.
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>Yeah. I suggest educating your friends. There was a time when I did not >know about BYBs and puppy mills. Additionally, it’s up to those of us who >care about the welfare of dogs to counter the fraudulent assertions of most >puppy-selling pet stores: they claim that their dogs do not come from mills, >but instead are from legitimate breeders.
Yeah, you’re right. I’m just not really good at confrontation. I’m just hoping instead that I can *show* them what a wonderful example of the breed you can get by doing it my way. It’s also that I don’t want to criticize their dogs. If *my* way is better than theirs, then *my* dog must be better. And they mostly have some pretty nice dogs. OTOH, one of them has a very white, very tall miniature schnauzer. He’s a nice enough dog but there’s definitely some questionable breeding in there. So I’m taking it slow. ~~Judy Whether human or dog, it is good to be Alpha Bitch.
Response:
> My corresponding story right now has to do with getting a new puppy. I’m > working with a *very* conscientious breeder who is really putting me through > the hoops. And I’m fine with that. My husband is fine with it. My friends > all think I am crazy -~~Judy > Whether human or dog, it is good to be Alpha Bitch.
I can certainly relate to your story. I am glad you are going through a breeder that has made you feel like you are jumping through hoops. That is an excellent sign that the breeder is ethical. I hope it all works out for you. Gwen
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| > | > | > My corresponding story right now has to do with getting a new puppy. I’m | > working with a *very* conscientious breeder who is really putting me through | > the hoops. And I’m fine with that. My husband is fine with it. My friends | > all think I am crazy – there are dogs advertised every day in the paper. | > It’s really hard to explain to them – without sounding like I’m criticizing | > *their* dogs, some of which I suspect came not just from a BYB but from an | > actual puppy mill. These friends have assured me that whatever kind of | > puppy I want, if they don’t have it they can get it in just a few days. | > That’s scary! | > | You can just tell them that you have different expectations of your | breeder and your soon to be puppy than they have. If they insist on | finding your puppy for you, give them a list of your requirements, and | wish them luck. | | Suja Yeah. I suggest educating your friends. There was a time when I did not know about BYBs and puppy mills. Additionally, it’s up to those of us who care about the welfare of dogs to counter the fraudulent assertions of most puppy-selling pet stores: they claim that their dogs do not come from mills, but instead are from legitimate breeders. Jeff Jeff Harper jeff#doplay.com
Response:
> My corresponding story right now has to do with getting a new puppy. I’m > working with a *very* conscientious breeder who is really putting me through > the hoops. And I’m fine with that. My husband is fine with it. My friends > all think I am crazy – there are dogs advertised every day in the paper. > It’s really hard to explain to them – without sounding like I’m criticizing > *their* dogs, some of which I suspect came not just from a BYB but from an > actual puppy mill. These friends have assured me that whatever kind of > puppy I want, if they don’t have it they can get it in just a few days. > That’s scary!
You can just tell them that you have different expectations of your breeder and your soon to be puppy than they have. If they insist on finding your puppy for you, give them a list of your requirements, and wish them luck. Suja
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>>What is a PBGV anyways? > It’s the usually accepted shorthand for "Petit Basset > Griffon Vendeen" which is a rather adorable and totally > delightful member of the AKC Hound Group!
The only PBGV I’ve known, the owner called her a "Peanut Butter Green Vegetable". To this day, I’ve got a brain block as to the real name. — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.
Response:
> All my attempts at educating her against > this has fallen on deaf ears. > I still have hope, and keep trying, but so far my sister isn’t listening. > Terri
I can certainly relate to this. Fortunately it isn’t one of my relatives but it is very frustrating when *many* of your close friends will not listen.:( Basically I have given up because many believe I am an animal loon. Gwen
Response:
>> All my attempts at educating her against > this has fallen on deaf ears. > I still have hope, and keep trying, but so far my sister isn’t listening. > Terri >I can certainly relate to this. Fortunately it isn’t one of my relatives >but it is very frustrating when *many* of your close friends will >not listen.:( Basically I have given up because many believe >I am an animal loon. >Gwen
My corresponding story right now has to do with getting a new puppy. I’m working with a *very* conscientious breeder who is really putting me through the hoops. And I’m fine with that. My husband is fine with it. My friends all think I am crazy – there are dogs advertised every day in the paper. It’s really hard to explain to them – without sounding like I’m criticizing *their* dogs, some of which I suspect came not just from a BYB but from an actual puppy mill. These friends have assured me that whatever kind of puppy I want, if they don’t have it they can get it in just a few days. That’s scary! ~~Judy Whether human or dog, it is good to be Alpha Bitch.
Response:
> 
. I’m awfully sorry, Amy.
Thanks. It was a shock at the time, but it’s now been a few months and I’ve mostly recovered. Some days I look at the whelping area or at the stud dog, my wonderful old dog with the great heart who is on his last legs, and I still regret the litter that I didn’t have. In the scheme of things, however, I hate to draw on anyone’s sympathy which is better directed elsewhere. Amy
Response:
> All you can really do now, is to perhaps persuade > your mom to get an ultrasound later on to see how big those pups > are and if the vet forsees any problems, and to prepare her to get Dixie > to the vet’s for a potential emergency C-section if needed, when it’s time > for delivery.
Yes, and mention to your mom that with my courtesy discount, at my inexpensive country vet, the emergency C-section and spay I had to do earlier this year cost me $850 with follow-up surgery. I am sure there would have been more expenses had the puppies survived. And that was with a breed that normally whelps a lot more easily than a shih tzu. With the head size on those little dogs, ultrasound could be a lifesaver. Amy
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>Yes, and mention to your mom that with my courtesy >discount, at my inexpensive country vet, the >emergency C-section and spay I had to do earlier >this year cost me $850 with follow-up surgery.
You *did* get off easily on that one, Amy; that could have easily been $1500+. And I hope the owner of this bitch under discussion is prepared to hand-raise the litter in case the bitch doesn’t survive or can’t nurse the pups. That requires feeding each pup every 2 hours around the clock for the first week–and with a large litter that can easily take near 2 hours for each feeding. IOW, you can count on NO sleep for the first week, and only very short naps after that. IIRC you can go to feeding every 3 hours after the first week, and every 4 hours after the 3rd or 4th week. It’s definitely not for the faint-hearted. >I am sure there would have been more expenses had >the puppies survived.
. I’m awfully sorry, Amy. Dianne
Response:
You have told your mom that her dog might die if she isnt spayed & she still wont listen to you!?! This is a hard one. You could take the dog to be spayed & risk your mom getting mad at you or you can keep trying to convince your mom how wrong this is. If she doesnt listen her dog might die. Maybe that will be the only thing that will open her eyes. I would hate for it to come to that though. As you said before she(Dixie) doesnt deserve this. If your mom wont listen to reason bring the dog in yourself. She doesnt need to suffer & die while trying to give birth. At least convince your mom to have a c-section set up for Dixie
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Swipe Dixie and take her to the vet. The hell with respecting your mom’s > wishes in this case. The dog is likely to die otherwise. Get her spayed > while you are there. > You don’t know my mother… she’d know it was me who’d "swiped" her, > and well… that just wouldn’t be any good for anyone. > Also, someone is probably missing their PBGV, whatever that is. What’s your > mom doing about that? > My mom has contacted the SPCA and Petland (they have a found and lost > animal board). If she doesn’t hear anything in a couple days she plans > on putting an add in the paper. She wants to find the owners so they > can help pay Dixies vet bills.
What is a PBGV anyways? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > http://zuzubabies.com/members/td
Response:
>> If you offered to pay for Dixie’s future spay, would that persuade > your mom to get it done? > Probably not. >No. *frowns* I’ve tried that route already.
You’ve posted asking for help and you’ve opened yourself up to all sorts of people saying all sorts of things, so here’s my two cents worth: if it were my mother, I’d kick her ass, drag her down to the local animal shelter and show her all the dogs that are likely to be euthanized, drag her home, and kick her ass again, but I come from a family where we’re pretty comfortable with, uh, vigorous disagreement. From what you’ve posted there’s nothing you can actually do about the situation without pissing off your mother. I think one thing you need to be considering is whether or not you’re comfortable with having your mother angry with you, just how angry she can be before it becomes intolerable for you, and what the long-term prospects are if she does become very angry. — If you send me harassing email, I’ll probably post it
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At LEAST neuter the PBGV! If they dont know where he is, they surely wont know how he GOT that way! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Swipe Dixie and take her to the vet. The hell with respecting your mom’s > wishes in this case. The dog is likely to die otherwise. Get her spayed > while you are there. > Also, someone is probably missing their PBGV, whatever that is. What’s your > mom doing about that? > Jeff > Jeff Harper > jeff#doplay.com > | > | > Couldn’t she still rush her in for a quick spay, considering the > | > circumstances? > | > | She could… but she won’t. *grumbles* > | > | And I went to my moms place, to see if I knew what breed the dog was, > | and to try to convince mom to still get Dixie spayed. The dog isn’t > | ugly (he’s cuter than Dixie is). My best guess is a PBGV… but I’ve > | only ever seen pictures of them before, so I may be off on that. > | > | — > | http://zuzubabies.com/members/td
Response:
> One thing concerns me very much, though, and that is that Dixie is > pregnant by a large dog. As a kid, I watched a dog we had die from > trying to whelp pups that were too large for her to deliver. > It was horrible, and my parents didn’t believe in vet care, > other than rabies shots. They didn’t even shoot her to put her > out of her misery. > shudder…
I’m so sorry to hear that. The poor thing… *shakes head* I can’t even imagine. > All you can really do now, is to perhaps persuade > your mom to get an ultrasound later on to see how big those pups > are and if the vet forsees any problems, and to prepare her to get Dixie > to the vet’s for a potential emergency C-section if needed, when it’s time > for delivery.
That’s what I’m trying to do. I’m doing my best to convince mom to get Dixie into the vets… At least then we’ll know what we’re dealing with, and how much help Dixie will need. I can pretty much gaurantee that Dixie will not be able to deliver these pups on her own. She’s only about 15 pounds, and this other dog is at LEAST twice her size. > If you offered to pay for Dixie’s future spay, would that persuade > your mom to get it done? > Probably not.
No. *frowns* I’ve tried that route already. > I understand your frustration. I’ve got a sister that still doesn’t > spay or neuter her animals, has been responsible for bringing more unwanted > dogs in the world and has rotated through more dogs in the past 10 > years that I have ever owned. All my attempts at educating her against > this has fallen on deaf ears. > I still have hope, and keep trying, but so far my sister isn’t listening.
Sorry to hear that you too have someone like this in your family. *frowns* It’s just so very frustrating. I’d finally convinced my mom to go with a little rescue for her second dog, instead of breeding Dixie, and along comes this roving male… *shakes head* Just GRRRRR. — http://zuzubabies.com/members/td
Response:
> Swipe Dixie and take her to the vet. The hell with respecting your mom’s > wishes in this case. The dog is likely to die otherwise. Get her spayed > while you are there.
You don’t know my mother… she’d know it was me who’d "swiped" her, and well… that just wouldn’t be any good for anyone. > Also, someone is probably missing their PBGV, whatever that is. What’s your > mom doing about that?
My mom has contacted the SPCA and Petland (they have a found and lost animal board). If she doesn’t hear anything in a couple days she plans on putting an add in the paper. She wants to find the owners so they can help pay Dixies vet bills. — http://zuzubabies.com/members/td
Response:
Swipe Dixie and take her to the vet. The hell with respecting your mom’s wishes in this case. The dog is likely to die otherwise. Get her spayed while you are there. Also, someone is probably missing their PBGV, whatever that is. What’s your mom doing about that? Jeff Jeff Harper jeff#doplay.com
| | > Couldn’t she still rush her in for a quick spay, considering the | > circumstances? | | She could… but she won’t. *grumbles* | | And I went to my moms place, to see if I knew what breed the dog was, | and to try to convince mom to still get Dixie spayed. The dog isn’t | ugly (he’s cuter than Dixie is). My best guess is a PBGV… but I’ve | only ever seen pictures of them before, so I may be off on that. | | — | http://zuzubabies.com/members/td
Response:
snip >So now Dixie is facing a possible pregnancy, with the male being a mixed >breed who weighs at least twice what she does. *shakes head* I’ve >tried explaining to mom the risks that Dixie could be facing, and told >her those include death… but mom will not have her spayed.
One of the things we learn as we grow up is we cannot control our parents. 
One thing concerns me very much, though, and that is that Dixie is pregnant by a large dog. As a kid, I watched a dog we had die from trying to whelp pups that were too large for her to deliver. It was horrible, and my parents didn’t believe in vet care, other than rabies shots. They didn’t even shoot her to put her out of her misery. shudder… All you can really do now, is to perhaps persuade your mom to get an ultrasound later on to see how big those pups are and if the vet forsees any problems, and to prepare her to get Dixie to the vet’s for a potential emergency C-section if needed, when it’s time for delivery. If you offered to pay for Dixie’s future spay, would that persuade your mom to get it done? Probably not. I understand your frustration. I’ve got a sister that still doesn’t spay or neuter her animals, has been responsible for bringing more unwanted dogs in the world and has rotated through more dogs in the past 10 years that I have ever owned. All my attempts at educating her against this has fallen on deaf ears. I still have hope, and keep trying, but so far my sister isn’t listening. Terri
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> Couldn’t she still rush her in for a quick spay, considering the > circumstances?
She could… but she won’t. *grumbles* And I went to my moms place, to see if I knew what breed the dog was, and to try to convince mom to still get Dixie spayed. The dog isn’t ugly (he’s cuter than Dixie is). My best guess is a PBGV… but I’ve only ever seen pictures of them before, so I may be off on that. — http://zuzubabies.com/members/td
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My mom called me today. *frowns* I’m just so P.O’d with her. I’d tried to convince her to get Dixie spayed… Dixie is her little Shih Tzu cross. I’d finally convinced her to rescue a Shih Tzu, instead of breeding Dixie for one of her puppies. My mom wanted two dogs, and had planned on finding a dog (a Shih Tzu or Toy Poodle) to breed with Dixie… she was going to keep one of the pups and sell the others. Well… she wouldn’t spay Dixie (still won’t), but had decided to let me help her find a little neutered rescue to be her second dog. Then I get a phone call today. Aparently a mixed breed male (mom describes him as being an incredibly ugly dog, I haven’t seen him) dug under their fence, and mom came outside just in time to see them doing the wild thing. *rolls eyes* "I just can’t believe this happened in Dixies own yard." I told mom it could happen in their own yard, but she wouldn’t listen to me then… So now Dixie is facing a possible pregnancy, with the male being a mixed breed who weighs at least twice what she does. *shakes head* I’ve tried explaining to mom the risks that Dixie could be facing, and told her those include death… but mom will not have her spayed. I could just shoot her. Dixie does not deserve this. And get this… My mom, after seeing what happened, took this male into the house, and left him with Dixie as she did her running around today. So chances are they’ve probably had a couple more ties. *shakes head* Grrrr… Sometimes I just don’t get people. — http://zuzubabies.com/members/td
Response:
Couldn’t she still rush her in for a quick spay, considering the circumstances? — Lori in Peoria, IL – Happy Hound Bakery at Happy Hound Hollow ~ Ask me about hound-sitting while you vacation! ~ Family stuff: http://www.geocities.com/reynoldsfamily_2000/ Happy Hound Hollow Sighthound Rescue ***and now Dobermans, too!: http://www.geocities.com/happyhoundhollow
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My mom called me today. *frowns* I’m just so P.O’d with her. I’d > tried to convince her to get Dixie spayed… Dixie is her little Shih > Tzu cross. I’d finally convinced her to rescue a Shih Tzu, instead of > breeding Dixie for one of her puppies. My mom wanted two dogs, and had > planned on finding a dog (a Shih Tzu or Toy Poodle) to breed with > Dixie… she was going to keep one of the pups and sell the others. > Well… she wouldn’t spay Dixie (still won’t), but had decided to let me > help her find a little neutered rescue to be her second dog. Then I get > a phone call today. > Aparently a mixed breed male (mom describes him as being an incredibly > ugly dog, I haven’t seen him) dug under their fence, and mom came > outside just in time to see them doing the wild thing. *rolls eyes* "I > just can’t believe this happened in Dixies own yard." I told mom it > could happen in their own yard, but she wouldn’t listen to me then… > So now Dixie is facing a possible pregnancy, with the male being a mixed > breed who weighs at least twice what she does. *shakes head* I’ve > tried explaining to mom the risks that Dixie could be facing, and told > her those include death… but mom will not have her spayed. > I could just shoot her. Dixie does not deserve this. > And get this… My mom, after seeing what happened, took this male into > the house, and left him with Dixie as she did her running around today. > So chances are they’ve probably had a couple more ties. *shakes head* > Grrrr… > Sometimes I just don’t get people. > — > http://zuzubabies.com/members/td
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