GSD Aggression: Help! + Follow A LOON To Obtain The EXACT SAME SAD RESULT She Got
Question:
> But you do have an aggressive out of control dog that > you’ve taken to a behaviorist and STILL have trouble > TRUSTING her cause she attacks you family members > for which you punish her behavior… > If you want to slam me, you could at least get the facts straight.
Insted of making things up. Lone
Response:
> HOWEDY LOON,
Cripes, another one. Now, The Puppy Loon gets *PLONKED* I recommend others do the same. — Di "May all your weeds be wildflowers." Anonymous dabell at optonline dot net www.pbase.com/di www.loveyourmother.homestead.com http://bensonpolymeric.com/folding/start.html
Response:
HOWE COME you don’t just set me straight, LOON? It’s ALL in the archives. Ain’t it. Jerry.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> But you do have an aggressive out of control dog that > you’ve taken to a behaviorist and STILL have trouble > TRUSTING her cause she attacks you family members > for which you punish her behavior… > If you want to slam me, you could at least get the facts straight. > Insted of making things up. > Lone
Response:
> Jerry Howe/Puppy Wizard are one in the same (he has a couple other > identities he uses that I can’t remember right now). As was suggested in 3 > other newsgroups, a lot of people killfile him, and all the other fractured > parts of his multiple personalities.
BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! ENJOY YOUR PROBLEMS!!! "Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep The Pressure Up" sindy "don’t let the dog SCREAM" mooreon. "Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens, But You’ll Get Over It." mike duforth, author: "Courteous Canine." "I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently as possible. What does this mean? When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time, spray one squirt directly into the dog’s mouth and walk away. The dog won’t be too thrilled with this but just ignore him and continue your normal behavior." –Mike Dufort author of the zero selling book "Courteous Canines" Yeah. When I preload my dog’s mouth with bitter apple, suppose I don’t get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey? Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can’t HURT it? "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." > > Jerome Bigge writes: > > I do know that hitting, hurting your dog will often make the > > dog either aggressive or a fear biter, neither of which we
> > > want to do. > And neither does anyone else, Jerome. No matter what Jerry Howe > states. > –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog. > You’re scary Marilyn. > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual. I feel very sorry > for her and her family. > BUT, giving you the benefit of the doubt, please provide a quote > (an original quote, not from one of Jerry Howe’s heavily edited > diatribes) that shows a regular poster promoting > or using an abusive form of training. > –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.
>Di, > I don’t believe you mentioned a particular kind of training. If you > are interested in training retrieval behavior than do consider > our own Amy Dahl’s: > The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-Mannered, Obedient and > Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a Day > by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:" "I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But Destructive," "I don’t see why anyone would want to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get a good working dog by making them unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl who continues: > just $17.95 at Amazon.com. > (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few regulars here who > are either ill-tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.) > –Marshall
amy lying frosty dahl continues: "On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have trained require much more frequent and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done, This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch You can press the dog’s ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting your will fades in importance. CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog is digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch, you are finished This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome" If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!" (stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided it isn’t worth it)" lying frosty dahl. "Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold. writes: > -snip headers etc. > Yes. you’re right, I really should find the book.. they don’t have these > books in the local pet stores I frequent, where do you find Koehler? >I got a nice large print copy from Amazon.com >Richard
Please try Powell’s Books in Portland Oregon. Their URL is: http://www.powells.com/ Unlike Amazon.com, Powell’s keeps both new and used books on its shelves. You can order books via e-email. Koehler Method Of Dog Training by Koehler, W R Published by HOWELL BOOK HOUSE (0876056575, Here’s some quotes and some methods right outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:" "The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House," 1996 William Koehler BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn’t quiet them, so we’ll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more emphatic. We’ll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his mouth. But you won’t make the permanent impression unless you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don’t always come at the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet hour" and pursue his old routines at other times. With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the dog’s value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more discriminating, increase it. The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because you’re gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you’ll have to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand. Attach a line to your dog’s collar, so your corrective effort doesn’t turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around when you’re not present. Next, equip yourself with a man’s leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good tanning. Yup-we’re going to strike him. Real hard. Remember, you’re dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does. Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going. When you’ve walked to a point where he’ll think you’re gone but where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog’s hearing to be many times as sharp as yours. When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so you can barge in while he’s still barking, which is generally impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area. Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you’ve conveniently placed, and descend on him. He’ll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or, if he’s a big dog, until you’ve snubbed him up with a hitch on something. While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the area again. So that you won’t feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I’ve always felt that it’s even better to spank children, even if they "cry out," than to "put them to sleep." You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent … read more »
Response:
Jerry Howe/Puppy Wizard are one in the same (he has a couple other identities he uses that I can’t remember right now). As was suggested in 3 other newsgroups, a lot of people killfile him, and all the other fractured parts of his multiple personalities.
Response:
HOWEDY LOON,
> Please no flames. Maybe I am a bad dog owner, but I’m trying very > hard This is the first time I’ve ever raised a dog from a puppy, but I’m > beginning to wonder how people manage to have dogs at all. > Julie > Hi Julie. > I am not a trainer nor a behaviourist,
But you do have an aggressive out of control dog that you’ve taken to a behaviorist and STILL have trouble TRUSTING her cause she attacks you family members for which you punish her behavior… > but just another fellow GSD owner.
No, not "just another." You’re a SPECIAL CASE. You got the same UNRESOLVED behavior problem thte OP does, EXCEPT WORSE~ > Others here on the board will give you some excellent advice
Yeah, they KILL dogs like this you screwball. > GSDs are wonderful dogs,
A dog is a dog, loone. > but as you have found out, they need to be trained.
Duh-Oh! Your dog is outta control LOON, and you punish her. > Yours had a bad experience with the neighbours dog, > this might be why he is at guard when in company of other dogs.
IMAGINE??? And you’re not a behaviorIST? Are you SURE? > Due to his behaviour around other dogs,
Ooooh, I see. You took a educated GUESS. > I would not trust him around other small dogs.
But big dogs and family and neighbor’s children are O.K.? > Some GSDs are not good around other small animals > such as dogs and cats.
That’s on account of some trainers couldn’t find their arse in the dark with both hands, loon. LOOK AT YOU!!! Your own dog has bitten several people even after MONTHS in training. > Furthermore I would tell the kids and their friends that there i > s no running when the dog is near.
You mean unless you waw TRAININ THE DOG? > i know that with mine I have to leash her if there is anyone > running or biking near us.
Or walking across your living room. > What is really important with a GSD is socialization.
This is NOT a SOCIALIZATION PROBLEM. This is a direct result of ineffective and inappropriate methods of training. That the dog IS socialized is proven by the FACT the dog has a child at his HOWES and the litle boy he bit was his occasional CARETAKER. That the dog bit him on the EXIT is SIGNIFICANT AS IT PROVES HOWE COME the accident happend. > They have to get used to different things and the sooner > you start to bring them around different things the better.
As evidenced by your STILL AGGRESSIVE OUT OF CONTROL DOG? > Also a GSD needs to know it’s place in the family, otherwise > it will be the one in charge.
That’s ABSURED, LOONE. THAT’S HOWE COME the dog IS aggressive. Can’t you SEE this? EVERY Gang Of Thugs Member has the same problems for the same reason, just as my students have NO behavior problems and their dogs ALWAYS come when called and NEVER get corrected or punished. > This is done with training.
It is you INSANE training that causes almost all behavior problems, including IDIOPATHIC EPILEPSY and IDIOPATHIC RAGE and SEPARATION ANXIETY. > I would continue training with him,
That’s on account of you like the FEELINGS of POWER. and CONTROL that compensates for your fragile ego, and weak mind. It’s part of your inferiority complex which COMPELS YOU to respond to this OP with your same sad story and your same sad recommendations guaranteed to obtain the EXACT SAME SAD RESULT YOU GOT. > if it is possible for you to control him
BWWWAWHJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAA!!! Got me laughin in Spanish and Jerry don’t even know Spanish. I should read ahead so I don’t get dope slapped like that and break out in hysterics. Can’t you DOG LOVERS SEE A PATTERN? It’s so OBVIOUS even this shade tree shit kickin dog trainer can write a doctorate thesis on IT. > I would go for the classes as you need to be able to > control him in different situations.
LIKE YOU DO, looney toons? What’s up with this crap? Your dog is DANGEROUS and if the OP follows the same advice you did, they’ll have to KILL THEIR DOG. I don’t care one way or the other. As a shade tree shit kickin dog trainer, I’ll be able to use the data for my own delight. > Work on sit, down, heel and stay.
Ya know sumpthin loony toons? It don’t mean diddly squat to old Jerry to watch you bums hurt and kill your dogs. Know HOWE COME? Cause I can BENEFIT by the DATA I’m collecting, and in the final analysis, it all boils down to ONE SIMPLE POINT… > Also your breeder might have some tips for you and > how you train him to be a good family member.
You think so, looney toons? Maybe she should go back to the vet for an evaluation? Yanno sumpthin looney toons? It’s been decades since I’ve last "evaluated" a dog for training, cause the JOB IS To TRAIN the dog, not "evaluate IF I CAN train the dog." A dog is a dog and training dogs isn’t LUCK. It’s freakin MAGICK. > When you feel that you have control over him,
BWWWAAAAAAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAA!!!! > it would be a good idea to teach your daughter how to > make him sit, stay and down,
The six year old child is not going to MAKE the dog do a goddamned thing. The child would be unable to even walk the dog cause you bums don’t train dogs, you force them and sometimes it works but mostly it just causes aggression and anxiety behavior problems, MOST PARTICULARLY HANDLER AGGRESSION, which could EZily account for HOWE COME the dog bit the boy who tends him on the occasional weekend. > as she needs to be able to control him as well,
Which ACCOUNTS FOR the dog biting on EXIT. The reason dogs bite folks EXITING the door is on account of HOWE the dog had been PUNISHED for jumping on guests coming in… The conditioning for this behavior could have been established months previous, but the conditions which provoke rage were not sufficiently installed till the incident. > this will also help him see her as above him inyour family.
In other words you’re going to REPRESS the dog and dominate IT and then KILL THE DOG TO BE FAIR, when IT challenges your ridiculous punishments. > Good luck
LUCK? Naaah. Luck won’t be on this dog’s side… the ODDS are against it. You can PROVE THAT TOO by looking up a google… LOONY. Go ahead. LOOK up posters like Robert Crim and Charlie W and Kay Pierce and Nevyn, Valerie, and Crash. Those posters came here with aggression problems and left CURED in a matter of ONE DAY for Charlie W and 2 DAYS for Valerie and 23 DAYS for Nevyn with his 2 fightin Pit X bitches. > lone
I can even rehabilitae serious behavior problems AUTOMATICALLY: A non dog owner writes: Dear Jerry- I just wanted to let you know how wonderful your Doggy Do Right product is. I was skeptical at first, but have been tremendously pleased. As you know, we had a neighbor’s dog that was extremely bothersome, at times barking loudly for 3 hours straight. Within a few days, the barking decreased, and now it is just the occasional bark. this dog lives approximately 500 feet away, and even at that distance, the machine has done wonders. You were always available and patient to answer my questions, and now I can be in my own home without going nuts from the barking. As an added pleasure, all the other minor barking nuisances in the neighborhood have stopped as well. Quiet is wonderful! Thank you. Pam Graves Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough of the manual and it’s counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it. This naive child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers. The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp. To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake names are more honest than people that use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and lived by their craft for decades. "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going to just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don’t really care. > actually admit to buying and having success with his > little black box.
I think I’m going to get one myself for Father’s day and take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You would never believe the results, so you’ll never know. > Anyone by now that doesn’t see a scam man coming by > Jerry’s posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming > to him! LOL!
I don’t see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei."…….right. >Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. > Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no > collars. > Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to > come back in the yard and would run for days. The > last time, Peach didn’t come back home. > I used the Wit’s End Training Manual to learn how to > train my dog. She is
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