MiKi, Westbergs Daughter, Penang???
Question:
Because there is so much doubt about those records that more supporting evidence is needed.
Response:
Freddie; The proof you seek is contained in the Pi-Ki Club of America’s supplemental historical pedigrees, which only elite club members with a secret decoder ring have access to. Since you withdrew your membership application, you forfeited your chance to view these documents. Sorry! Pikisrus >Your website claims that the Pi-Ki was used >as a guard dog and thats why the feet and heads gots >to be shaved at all times becuase to avoid the fur being >grabbed by convicts. Yet all of the loose escaped >convicts from the rare desserted island of Penyank >off the coast of Malaise deny this. So, Pi-Ki Club of America > – what is your explanation of this??? Your 2nd Vice President >publicly stated that they are shaved this way for guard duty. Unless >you can prove them wrong, you should post a retraction or an >explanation, for the legal record.
Before you buy.
Response:
Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs into this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. So, Mi-Ki Club of America – what is your explanation of this??? Your 2nd Vice President publicly stated that she did bring them from Penang. Unless you can prove her wrong, you should post a retraction or an explanation, for the legal record. My questions would stop if I would simply be provided with supportive documentation. Investigations would stop if evidence was provided that substantiated the claims made by the Mi-Ki Club of America and some of it’s members. This is all so basic. A legitimate organization/person could easily provide proof, and in fact would have done so long ago so as not to further tarnish the reputation of the breed in question. All of the documentation I have accumulated to date shows the Mi-Ki Club of America ignoring many legitimate questions, responding in an overly defiant manner, and not providing any legal documentation. Which leads any reasonably intelligent person to come to the conclusion that we all have already. Before you buy.
Response:
> Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs into > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang.
Okay, Maureen claims to have bought them from a person who said he was a deposed prince from Aleppo, Syria and called himself Acabar, Acebar, Acebar Zodi and then changed his name to John Ackbarzodi. (Yes, I know none of you would have believed this story.) He came here, passing through Penang. He, according to Maureen had the In-Chan-Ting kennels on Suplavidia (sp) Blvd. near North Hollywood, CA. I am looking at a pedigree from the Mi-Ki club of America that was put on their web site because they pulled it. It said the early breeder is Prince John Aacerbar Zode. Can anyone look in the period of 1980-1993 through a city directory of that area and find such a person? Or perhaps an Ackbarzadeh? If there is, yes there could have been Mi-Ki’s born in Penang when he passed through there. If he wasn’t there, then the truth is elsewhere. Before you buy.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs into > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. > Okay, Maureen claims to have bought them from a person who said he was > a deposed prince from Aleppo, Syria and called himself Acabar, Acebar, > Acebar Zodi and then changed his name to John Ackbarzodi. (Yes, I know > none of you would have believed this story.) He came here, passing > through Penang. He, according to Maureen had the In-Chan-Ting kennels > on Suplavidia (sp) Blvd. near North Hollywood, CA. > I am looking at a pedigree from the Mi-Ki club of America that was put > on their web site because they pulled it. It said the early breeder is > Prince John Aacerbar Zode. > Can anyone look in the period of 1980-1993 through a city directory of > that area and find such a person? Or perhaps an Ackbarzadeh? > If there is, yes there could have been Mi-Ki’s born in Penang when he > passed through there. > If he wasn’t there, then the truth is elsewhere. > Before you buy.
I have searched the present day directories and only found Ackbarzadeh as a relevent spelling, and even that is a rare Middle Eastern name in this country. I have called all persons in all states with that name, not just California, and none breed or have bred dogs and I have come up blank. Maureen says this guy had a brother who worked as a beautician in LA. I’m still tracking down leads on this angle as well. Sooo, what sort of guy is a beautician and what sort of guy raises small lap dogs as a hobby???? I’m searching that angle as well. However, I have never seen the Mi-Ki Club of America support this particular story of origin. tenners – I would love to have you send me a copy of the pedigree that you said was posted on their website, and hopefully you have the date that that was posted, to either PO Box 662, Elk River, MN 55330 or fax a copy to me at (612) 342-9716 for my legal evidence file. Attn: Julie Mattson Also, Maureen has never stated to me on the phone or in the print that I have read published by her, that Mr. Ackbarzadeh(sp) brought his dogs from ANY other country and she has not claimed that the dogs originate from anywhere but the USA. She writes that the man traveled through Penang on his way to the USA, but not that he brought dogs with him from Syria, Penang or any other country. It does not say he BROUGHT dogs with him. She writes about Mi-Ki’s "they have roots in antiquity, although it is a thoroughly modern dog of today" …. "the modern developers of the breed have developed a true look alike reproduction of the ancient breed, blah blah blah". But this is an entirely different track than what the Mi-Ki Club of America people report, at least from what I have seen. Maureen told me verbally on 10-14 that she had seen "Papillon, Maltese & Yorkie’s" at this John’s residence. She has published other breeds being involved either in the heritage or other breeds she has mixed in. If you have separate evidence (no matter how trivial) against false claims made by Maureen Westberg, aka Maureen Van Wormer, Vonwormer, Von Wormer, Vanwormer or her daughter, or any other person I’d be interested in receiving that as well. To date, the case I have been working on has only been related to The Mi-Ki Club of America, Inc. If you, or anyone else reading this, has ANY possible evidence against ANY other person selling or promoting Mi-Ki dogs that make claims that can’t be proven, I would like to hear from you. I will take it upon myself to investigate all the evidence presented, and if the outcome of the investigation warrants a lawsuit to be filed, I will take action to that end as well. As posed on a separate post, Mi-Ki Club of America – where do you get your information that the dogs have shared ancestors of Papillon, Maltese and Japanese Chin???? Forever Diligent, Julie Mattson Before you buy.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs > into > > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. > Okay, Maureen claims to have bought them from a person who said he was > a deposed prince from Aleppo, Syria and called himself Acabar, Acebar, > Acebar Zodi and then changed his name to John Ackbarzodi. (Yes, I know > none of you would have believed this story.) He came here, passing > through Penang. He, according to Maureen had the In-Chan-Ting kennels > on Suplavidia (sp) Blvd. near North Hollywood, CA. > I am looking at a pedigree from the Mi-Ki club of America that was put > on their web site because they pulled it. It said the early breeder > is > Prince John Aacerbar Zode. > Can anyone look in the period of 1980-1993 through a city directory of > that area and find such a person? Or perhaps an Ackbarzadeh? > If there is, yes there could have been Mi-Ki’s born in Penang when he > passed through there. > If he wasn’t there, then the truth is elsewhere. > Before you buy. > I have searched the present day directories and only found Ackbarzadeh > as a relevent spelling, and even that is a rare Middle Eastern name > in this country. I have called all persons in all states with that > name, not just California, and none breed or have bred dogs and I have > come up blank. Maureen says this guy had a brother who worked as a > beautician in LA. I’m still tracking down leads on this angle as well. > Sooo, what sort of guy is a beautician and what sort of guy raises small > lap dogs as a hobby???? I’m searching that angle as well. > However, I have never seen the Mi-Ki Club of America support this > particular story of origin. tenners – I would love to have you send me > a copy of the pedigree that you said was posted on their website, and > hopefully you have the date that that was posted, to either PO Box 662, > Elk River, MN 55330 or fax a copy to me at (612) 342-9716 for my legal > evidence file. Attn: Julie Mattson > Also, Maureen has never stated to me on the phone or in the print that I > have read published by her, that Mr. Ackbarzadeh(sp) brought his dogs > from ANY other country and she has not claimed that the dogs originate > from anywhere but the USA. She writes that the man traveled through > Penang on his way to the USA, but not that he brought dogs with him from > Syria, Penang or any other country. It does not say he BROUGHT dogs > with him. She writes about Mi-Ki’s "they have roots in antiquity, > although it is a thoroughly modern dog of today" …. "the modern > developers of the breed have developed a true look alike reproduction of > the ancient breed, blah blah blah". But this is an entirely different > track than what the Mi-Ki Club of America people report, at least from > what I have seen. Maureen told me verbally on 10-14 that she had seen > "Papillon, Maltese & Yorkie’s" at this John’s residence. She has > published other breeds being involved either in the heritage or other > breeds she has mixed in. > If you have separate evidence (no matter how trivial) against false > claims made by Maureen Westberg, aka Maureen Van Wormer, Vonwormer, Von > Wormer, Vanwormer or her daughter, or any other person I’d be interested > in receiving that as well. To date, the case I have been working on has > only been related to The Mi-Ki Club of America, Inc. If you, or anyone > else reading this, has ANY possible evidence against ANY other person > selling or promoting Mi-Ki dogs that make claims that can’t be proven, I > would like to hear from you. I will take it upon myself to investigate > all the evidence presented, and if the outcome of the investigation > warrants a lawsuit to be filed, I will take action to that end as
well. > As posed on a separate post, Mi-Ki Club of America – where do you get > your information that the dogs have shared ancestors of Papillon, > Maltese and Japanese Chin???? > Forever Diligent, > Julie Mattson
This pedigree belongs to Suzanne and Dale Kirwood. I doubt they gave their permission to have it posted. Because this is an area of sensitivity between the Kirkwoods and The Mi-Ki Club of America, and because Donna Hall issued it and also because it belongs to Suzanne and not me, I feel it would be more ethical if either she or Donna provided you with that copy. I would hope that someone who can easily get records from California would cooperate in looking in the period from 1989-1993, city directories, kennel licenses, etc. because a lot can happen in ten years. People can move die, etc. If he existed, by now he could be the dog breeder formerly known as Prince. Bad. He could have returned to the Middle East. He could have further Americanized his name. But if this person, entered this country and lived there, there hopefully are some records from that time period.. passports, visas. If that person existed and was using an assumed name, there hopefully would be city records on the dogs or vet records or something. By the way, if he came here from Syria, through Penang, where did he get the root stock if these dogs or dog didn’t come with him? Did Maureen say? I never asked her that question. Before you buy.
Response:
Julie; The proof you seek is contained in the Mi-Ki Club of America’s supplemental historical pedigrees, which only club members have access to. Since you withdrew your membership application, you forfeited your chance to view these documents. Sorry- Freddie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs into > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. So, Mi-Ki Club of America > – what is your explanation of this??? Your 2nd Vice President publicly > stated that she did bring them from Penang. Unless you can prove > her wrong, you should post a retraction or an explanation, for the legal > record. > My questions would stop if I would simply be provided with supportive > documentation. Investigations would stop if evidence was provided that > substantiated the claims made by the Mi-Ki Club of America and some of > it’s members. This is all so basic. A legitimate organization/person > could easily provide proof, and in fact would have done so long ago so > as not to further tarnish the reputation of the breed in question. All > of the documentation I have accumulated to date shows the Mi-Ki Club of > America ignoring many legitimate questions, responding in an overly > defiant manner, and not providing any legal documentation. Which leads > any reasonably intelligent person to come to the conclusion that we all > have already. > Before you buy.
Response:
>The proof you seek is contained in the Mi-Ki Club of America’s >supplemental historical pedigrees, which only club members have access >to.
So what’s the big secret about the pedigrees? You *do* realize that pedigrees are usually made readily available, don’t you? I can’t see any possible reason you would keep these secret unless you are trying to put something over on someone. Since you are apparently in the process of seeking AKC recognition (you did apply for FSS status with the AKC, after all) you should know that AKC makes pedigree information on all recognized breeds available to anyone who wants it. (See http://www.akc.org/ & click on "On-Line Pedigrees".) Dianne
Response:
> What is a "supplemental historical pedigree"? Why do breed clubs keep > these a secret?
Breed clubs don’t. Responsible breed clubs don’t, that is. The stud book must be an open book to have any credibility. Lynn K.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What is a "supplemental historical pedigree"? Why do breed clubs keep > these a secret? > Breed clubs don’t. Responsible breed clubs don’t, that is. The > stud book must be an open book to have any credibility. > Lynn K. > My question is how do you go about requesting these so called > "supplemental historical pedigrees"? Freddie says that you have > to be a member of the Mi-Ki COA. If that’s so, do you get copies or > must you go to Donna’s to see them? To anyone: What do responsible > clubs do when approached by someone seeking this information? > Only looking to get the truth > Nicholebone >*Oh, what a web of lies we weave, when we practice to deceive.*
Before you buy.
Response:
AAAAAAW! Freedie, not Penang again? Remember me? I am Ms.Zuraida and I am from Balik Pulau in Penang, Malaysia. How many times must we tell U that your breed do not come from my home state? Why are U so ignorant about this? Mesti kita cakap lagi? Have you been here? All of us do not have your Mi-Ki breed!But many of us saw your picture of flying buubuu champion! It looks like many pariah drain-back-lane mix type cross lah! Why don’t you come to Penang and we show you many.Maybe our Mee-Kee can impress you so you can buy from us. We can also check for good DNA. Our doctors can check for you for free. Maybe I can ask some friends working at the INTEL factory nearby to see our Mee-Kee if can be the same like yr razzimazzitazzi. Give up lah Freedie, Jangan bohong lagi dan buat malu kot? Remember lah, everytime you say it is from Penang, kita will write lagi yah, kot? Why you bluff alot ahh? Okey? Selamat datang ke Pulau Pinang, Malaysia. Bye yah? ZuraidaA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Julie; > The proof you seek is contained in the Mi-Ki Club of America’s > supplemental historical pedigrees, which only club members have access > to. > Since you withdrew your membership application, you forfeited your > chance to view these documents. > Sorry- > Freddie > Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs into > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. So, Mi-Ki Club of America > – what is your explanation of this??? Your 2nd Vice President publicly > stated that she did bring them from Penang. Unless you can prove > her wrong, you should post a retraction or an explanation, for the legal > record. > My questions would stop if I would simply be provided with supportive > documentation. Investigations would stop if evidence was provided that > substantiated the claims made by the Mi-Ki Club of America and some of > it’s members. This is all so basic. A legitimate organization/person > could easily provide proof, and in fact would have done so long ago so > as not to further tarnish the reputation of the breed in question. All > of the documentation I have accumulated to date shows the Mi-Ki Club of > America ignoring many legitimate questions, responding in an overly > defiant manner, and not providing any legal documentation. Which leads > any reasonably intelligent person to come to the conclusion that we all > have already. > Before you buy.
Before you buy.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > What is a "supplemental historical pedigree"? Why do breed clubs > keep > > these a secret? > Breed clubs don’t. Responsible breed clubs don’t, that is. The > stud book must be an open book to have any credibility. > Lynn K. > My question is how do you go about requesting these so called > "supplemental historical pedigrees"? Freddie says that you have > to be a member of the Mi-Ki COA. If that’s so, do you get copies or > must you go to Donna’s to see them? To anyone: What do responsible > clubs do when approached by someone seeking this information? > Only looking to get the truth > Nicholebone
On the pedigrees that I have for my 2 Mi-Ki’s that came from Donna Hall, the pedigrees state a dog’s name (no kennel name prior to In-Chan-Ting or Tee-Nee) their color, weight, ear type under the area for Reg. No. it "R # Foreign". No reference to Penang or anywhere. Before you buy.
Response:
Hello Ms Zuraida! My son was engaged to a lovely young lady from Malaysia, who also said she had not EVER heard of or seen a Mi-Ki until she came here. She also told me that if they WERE Malaysian, she would have had one, when she lived there, because she thinks they’re cute, and her family has lots of pets. My son and his girlfriend have broken up, but I still see her and talk to her, and she thinks this claim being from Penang is just too funny. Helen
Response:
Dear Freddie Reitz- President of the Mi-Ki club USA, We could not help noticing your claim that a breed called the Mi-Ki originates from our country. We are pedigree dogs lovers and we are from Penang, Malaysia. We also understand that you have made this claim for the last 2-3 years. Please be informed that we do not have the Mi-Ki here in Penang and this breed DO NOT come from our country. We are also members of the Malaysian Kennel Association and after checking with them, they confirmed that your claim is baseless! After going through your past postings, we are really dissapointed with your insistence that the Mi-Ki still comes from Penang, Malaysia! We are taking this up with our local government and authorities. We have discussed this with the members of Canine Associations of our neighbouring countries i.e. Thailand, Philippines, Singapore and of course, The Canine Association of Western Australia. In fact, none of them have even heard of your breed. Please also note that our show judges are from Australia for the last 20 years at least and none of the judges have heard about the Mi-Ki from Penang! So, Mr Freddie Reitz, please get your facts right and stop getting our Penang involved in your claim! Best Regards, Vortilla Lim, Pulau Tikus, Penang, West Malaysia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Julie; > The proof you seek is contained in the Mi-Ki Club of America’s > supplemental historical pedigrees, which only club members have access > to. > Since you withdrew your membership application, you forfeited your > chance to view these documents. > Sorry- > Freddie > Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs into > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. So, Mi-Ki Club of America > – what is your explanation of this??? Your 2nd Vice President publicly > stated that she did bring them from Penang. Unless you can prove > her wrong, you should post a retraction or an explanation, for the legal > record. > My questions would stop if I would simply be provided with supportive > documentation. Investigations would stop if evidence was provided that > substantiated the claims made by the Mi-Ki Club of America and some of > it’s members. This is all so basic. A legitimate organization/person > could easily provide proof, and in fact would have done so long ago so > as not to further tarnish the reputation of the breed in question. All > of the documentation I have accumulated to date shows the Mi-Ki Club of > America ignoring many legitimate questions, responding in an overly > defiant manner, and not providing any legal documentation. Which leads > any reasonably intelligent person to come to the conclusion that we all > have already. > Before you buy.
Before you buy.
Response:
> To anyone: What do responsible > clubs do when approached by someone seeking this information?
Many breed clubs are working very hard to get ALL registry information out in a form easily accessible to anyone and everyone. For example, there are on-line sites where you can easily see the pedigree of every Rhodesian Ridgeback or Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever every registered. And a great CD that contains the same information for GSDs – internationally. It’s quite a thrill to be able to trace your German Shepherd back to the very 1st one! The Mi-Ki and Shiloh Shepherd clubs are the only ones I know of that do not make any and all registry information freely available. Lynn K.
Response:
You might also consider contacting the AKC. This bunch probably also used this false information during their getting of the FSS status with the AKC. It would be nice if the AKC could, once and for all time, remove this fraud from their web site, as this FSS status has been used in the past by these people to scam people into believing these mixed-breed dogs are an officially recongized breed. I haven’t hear back regarding my own email to them yesterday, but I’ll be emailing them again today. And perhaps every couple of days, until I hear back about why they have this fraud listed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Dear Freddie Reitz- President of the Mi-Ki club USA, > We could not help noticing your claim that a breed called the Mi-Ki > originates from our country. We are pedigree dogs lovers and we are > from Penang, Malaysia. We also understand that you have made this > claim for the last 2-3 years. Please be informed that we do not have > the Mi-Ki here in Penang and this breed DO NOT come from our country. > We are also members of the Malaysian Kennel Association and after > checking with them, they confirmed that your claim is baseless! > After going through your past postings, we are really dissapointed > with your insistence that the Mi-Ki still comes from Penang, Malaysia! > We are taking this up with our local government and authorities. > We have discussed this with the members of Canine Associations of > our neighbouring countries i.e. Thailand, Philippines, Singapore > and of course, The Canine Association of Western Australia. In fact, > none of them have even heard of your breed. Please also note that > our show judges are from Australia for the last 20 years at least > and none of the judges have heard about the Mi-Ki from Penang! > So, Mr Freddie Reitz, please get your facts right and stop getting > our Penang involved in your claim! > Best Regards, > Vortilla Lim, > Pulau Tikus, Penang, West Malaysia > Julie; > The proof you seek is contained in the Mi-Ki Club of America’s > supplemental historical pedigrees, which only club members have access > to. > Since you withdrew your membership application, you forfeited your > chance to view these documents. > Sorry- > Freddie > > Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs > into > > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. So, Mi-Ki Club of > America > > – what is your explanation of this??? Your 2nd Vice President > publicly > > stated that she did bring them from Penang. Unless you can prove > > her wrong, you should post a retraction or an explanation, for the > legal > > record. > > My questions would stop if I would simply be provided with > supportive > > documentation. Investigations would stop if evidence was provided > that > > substantiated the claims made by the Mi-Ki Club of America and some > of > > it’s members. This is all so basic. A legitimate > organization/person > > could easily provide proof, and in fact would have done so long ago > so > > as not to further tarnish the reputation of the breed in question. > All > > of the documentation I have accumulated to date shows the Mi-Ki Club > of > > America ignoring many legitimate questions, responding in an overly > > defiant manner, and not providing any legal documentation. Which > leads > > any reasonably intelligent person to come to the conclusion that we > all > > have already. > > Before you buy. > Before you buy.
– providing entertainment for small-minded gossipers since 1998
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You might also consider contacting the AKC. This bunch probably also used this false information during their getting of the FSS status with the AKC. > It would be nice if the AKC could, once and for all time, remove this fraud from their web site, as this FSS status has been used in the past by these people to scam people into believing these mixed-breed dogs are an officially recongized breed. > I haven’t hear back regarding my own email to them yesterday, but I’ll be emailing them again today. And perhaps every couple of days, until I hear back about why they have this fraud listed. > Dear Freddie Reitz- President of the Mi-Ki club USA, > We could not help noticing your claim that a breed called the Mi-Ki > originates from our country. We are pedigree dogs lovers and we are > from Penang, Malaysia. We also understand that you have made this > claim for the last 2-3 years. Please be informed that we do not have > the Mi-Ki here in Penang and this breed DO NOT come from our country. > We are also members of the Malaysian Kennel Association and after > checking with them, they confirmed that your claim is baseless! > After going through your past postings, we are really dissapointed > with your insistence that the Mi-Ki still comes from Penang, Malaysia! > We are taking this up with our local government and authorities. > We have discussed this with the members of Canine Associations of > our neighbouring countries i.e. Thailand, Philippines, Singapore > and of course, The Canine Association of Western Australia. In fact, > none of them have even heard of your breed. Please also note that > our show judges are from Australia for the last 20 years at least > and none of the judges have heard about the Mi-Ki from Penang! > So, Mr Freddie Reitz, please get your facts right and stop getting > our Penang involved in your claim! > Best Regards, > Vortilla Lim, > Pulau Tikus, Penang, West Malaysia > > Julie; > > The proof you seek is contained in the Mi-Ki Club of America’s > > supplemental historical pedigrees, which only club members have access > > to. > > Since you withdrew your membership application, you forfeited your > > chance to view these documents. > > Sorry- > > Freddie > > > Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs > into > > > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. So, Mi-Ki Club of > America > > > – what is your explanation of this??? Your 2nd Vice President > publicly > > > stated that she did bring them from Penang. Unless you can prove > > > her wrong, you should post a retraction or an explanation, for the > legal > > > record. > > > My questions would stop if I would simply be provided with > supportive > > > documentation. Investigations would stop if evidence was provided > that > > > substantiated the claims made by the Mi-Ki Club of America and some > of > > > it’s members. This is all so basic. A legitimate > organization/person > > > could easily provide proof, and in fact would have done so long ago > so > > > as not to further tarnish the reputation of the breed in question. > All > > > of the documentation I have accumulated to date shows the Mi-Ki Club > of > > > America ignoring many legitimate questions, responding in an overly > > > defiant manner, and not providing any legal documentation. Which > leads > > > any reasonably intelligent person to come to the conclusion that we > all > > > have already. > > > Before you buy. > Before you buy.
– providing entertainment for small-minded gossipers since 1998
Response:
Lynn K.
Response:
Tibbi, This is really interesting. Was it you that contacted the AKC last year and tried to say that we were committing fraud? The AKC has already conducted an investigation and taken no action. As a matter of fact, the Mi-Ki Club of America was added to the FSS page shortly after the last allegations were dismissed. That message you quoted is also interesting. Sorry, but never saw it before. First, I am not the "President" of the Mi-Ki Club of America, Inc. I am the Second Vice President amd Webmaster. Second, I do not have the time to respond to every message posted in newsgroups. Apparently, this was posted through deja.com, so it was done by someone anonymously. I personally do not give much credibility to messages posted anonymously. If the pedigrees that we have in Maurine Westberg’s own handwriting are false, that is not our problem. Those original pedigrees are not recorded in our stud books. Maurine or her daughter would have to step forward and admit that the pedigrees are false, and I am not so sure they want to do that even if it were true. Issuing false pedigrees is not only a crime in the State of Wisconsin, but also a violation of Federal Law. I understand that out of our foundation dogs, some were owned by Maurine and some were owned by her daughter. If they admit now that they issued false pedigress on these dogs, they would be admitting to what I believe is a felony, not only subjecting them to criminal charges, but they would be liable for the hundreds of civil claims that would be filed against them, probably amounting to hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions. If memory serves me right, the penalty for issuing false pedigrees in Wisconsin can include a fine of up to $10,000 for each offense. If you insist on resporting us _again_, the correct email address for Sincerely, Freddie T. Reitz 2nd Vice President and Webmaster Mi-Ki Club of America, Inc. http://www.mi-kicoa.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You might also consider contacting the AKC. This bunch probably also used this false information during their getting of the FSS status with the AKC. > It would be nice if the AKC could, once and for all time, remove this fraud from their web site, as this FSS status has been used in the past by these people to scam people into believing these mixed-breed dogs are an officially recongized breed. > I haven’t hear back regarding my own email to them yesterday, but I’ll be emailing them again today. And perhaps every couple of days, until I hear back about why they have this fraud listed. > Dear Freddie Reitz- President of the Mi-Ki club USA, > We could not help noticing your claim that a breed called the Mi-Ki > originates from our country. We are pedigree dogs lovers and we are > from Penang, Malaysia. We also understand that you have made this > claim for the last 2-3 years. Please be informed that we do not have > the Mi-Ki here in Penang and this breed DO NOT come from our country. > We are also members of the Malaysian Kennel Association and after > checking with them, they confirmed that your claim is baseless! > After going through your past postings, we are really dissapointed > with your insistence that the Mi-Ki still comes from Penang, Malaysia! > We are taking this up with our local government and authorities. > We have discussed this with the members of Canine Associations of > our neighbouring countries i.e. Thailand, Philippines, Singapore > and of course, The Canine Association of Western Australia. In fact, > none of them have even heard of your breed. Please also note that > our show judges are from Australia for the last 20 years at least > and none of the judges have heard about the Mi-Ki from Penang! > So, Mr Freddie Reitz, please get your facts right and stop getting > our Penang involved in your claim! > Best Regards, > Vortilla Lim, > Pulau Tikus, Penang, West Malaysia > > Julie; > > The proof you seek is contained in the Mi-Ki Club of America’s > > supplemental historical pedigrees, which only club members have access > > to. > > Since you withdrew your membership application, you forfeited your > > chance to view these documents. > > Sorry- > > Freddie > > > Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs > into > > > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. So, Mi-Ki Club of > America > > > – what is your explanation of this??? Your 2nd Vice President > publicly > > > stated that she did bring them from Penang. Unless you can prove > > > her wrong, you should post a retraction or an explanation, for the > legal > > > record. > > > My questions would stop if I would simply be provided with > supportive > > > documentation. Investigations would stop if evidence was provided > that > > > substantiated the claims made by the Mi-Ki Club of America and some > of > > > it’s members. This is all so basic. A legitimate > organization/person > > > could easily provide proof, and in fact would have done so long ago > so > > > as not to further tarnish the reputation of the breed in question. > All > > > of the documentation I have accumulated to date shows the Mi-Ki Club > of > > > America ignoring many legitimate questions, responding in an overly > > > defiant manner, and not providing any legal documentation. Which > leads > > > any reasonably intelligent person to come to the conclusion that we > all > > > have already. > > > Before you buy. > Before you buy. > — > providing entertainment for small-minded gossipers since 1998
Response:
>So, on the one hand you state that Maureen is not credible, on the other >hand you say you believe the information that she gave you, so which is >it. Is she to be believed or not? Donna posted she wasn’t to be
This reminds me of a situation we have with `Anatolian Shepherd` dogs, a `breed` not to be found in Anatolia, but recognized by the AKC. Sometimes the problem with establishing a breed can arise out of misinformed foreigners going to a country and think that they have found a breed without doing proper research. In the case of the Anatolian Shepherd, a few Englishmen and Americans saw the shepherd dogs used in Turkey, collected a few from where they lived and took them abroad. Had they bothered to speak to a few of the locals, they would have heard of Kangal and Akbash, distinct shepherd dog breeds used in Turkey. Instead, they ended up with a few generic dogs out of Turkey. Never mind that nobody in Turkey had ever heard of Anatolian Shepherd, it is recognized by kennel clubs. Since Turkey does not have a kennel club still, the problem goes on, and by now these dogs probably have become a distinct breed. In my opinion, at some point it becomes irrelevant whether or not the original Mi-Ki’s were ever heard of by anybody in Malaysia. The foundation stock is there, and after some time a breed gets established. Best regards, Deniz Akkus
Response:
>If the pedigrees that we have in Maurine Westberg’s own handwriting are >false, that is not our problem
There is something here that really bothers me. Each and every breeder has the responsibility to KNOW the dogs behind their breeding dogs: e.g. research pedigrees. Responsible and reputable breeders HAVE to have the information and provide it to purchasers of their animals, be they dogs, cats, or horses. In fact, in the horse world, most registries now REQUIRE DNA typing on breeding stock for this very reason. I’ve had a personal experience with this as a cat breeder (and yes, pedigrees are just as important and for the same reason–dog breeders don’t have the market cornered on luxating patellae, hip dysplasia, muscular dystrophies, cardiomyopathy, etc.) The term cat breeders use is "paperhanging". I worked for many years with a breed that first had an open studbook, a foundation registry, and then a situation where 2 registries had closed the studbook, and 1 had not. I purchased a female for breeding purposes who, as it turned out, had a "questionable" pedigree in the foundation registry (conflicting documentation and paperwork errors)…she was a purebred by eye, but after extensive research with both US and foreign breeders, I could not prove to my satisfaction that she was indeed purebred thru the required 4 generations. This, of course, was a huge financial hit for me, but more than that, it was a huge ethics hit: I had sold cats represented as purebreds that I now couldn’t prove WERE purebreds. I offered quite a few refunds, paid for altering in some cases. I was very lucky in my choice of "customers", "MY" kitten buyers all chose to keep their cats as companions. There is a person on this list who can vouch for this, as she’s had a direct son and a grandson of this cat. She can vouch that I notified her of the pedigree issue, INFORMED her of the undocumented outcross and its possible impact, and offered restitution if she so desired. I also informed any foreign breed clubs working with the same line of this issue, and provided conclusive documentation. Best, Reva (and no, I didn’t dump the female who turned out to be a "mutt"…she was euthanized due to pancreatic cancer in late middle age)
Response:
So, on the one hand you state that Maureen is not credible, on the other hand you say you believe the information that she gave you, so which is it. Is she to be believed or not? Donna posted she wasn’t to be believed. You post that it "is not your problem" if she gave you false pedigrees!!! Of course it is your problem. You can be sued right along with her if you had evidence that they weren’t true pedigrees and continued to issue them as such. I for one will not be donating much more time to the matter since the evidence is very clear. The State of Wisconsin will prosecute those deserving. And for those remotely involved with The Mi-Ki Club of America, Inc. I would be concerned about being implicated with them. Which is why I was instructed to send written statement of fact that I did not want to be a member, even thought I did not have a membership. Just to be on the safe side. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tibbi, > This is really interesting. Was it you that contacted the AKC last year > and tried to say that we were committing fraud? The AKC has already > conducted an investigation and taken no action. As a matter of fact, > the Mi-Ki Club of America was added to the FSS page shortly after the > last allegations were dismissed. > That message you quoted is also interesting. Sorry, but never saw it > before. First, I am not the "President" of the Mi-Ki Club of America, > Inc. I am the Second Vice President amd Webmaster. Second, I do not > have the time to respond to every message posted in newsgroups. > Apparently, this was posted through deja.com, so it was done by someone > anonymously. I personally do not give much credibility to messages > posted anonymously. > If the pedigrees that we have in Maurine Westberg’s own handwriting are > false, that is not our problem. Those original pedigrees are not > recorded in our stud books. Maurine or her daughter would have to step > forward and admit that the pedigrees are false, and I am not so sure > they want to do that even if it were true. Issuing false pedigrees is > not only a crime in the State of Wisconsin, but also a violation of > Federal Law. > I understand that out of our foundation dogs, some were owned by Maurine > and some were owned by her daughter. If they admit now that they issued > false pedigress on these dogs, they would be admitting to what I believe > is a felony, not only subjecting them to criminal charges, but they > would be liable for the hundreds of civil claims that would be filed > against them, probably amounting to hundreds of thousands of dollars, if > not millions. If memory serves me right, the penalty for issuing false > pedigrees in Wisconsin can include a fine of up to $10,000 for each > offense. > If you insist on resporting us _again_, the correct email address for > Sincerely, > Freddie T. Reitz > 2nd Vice President and Webmaster > Mi-Ki Club of America, Inc. > http://www.mi-kicoa.org/ > You might also consider contacting the AKC. This bunch probably
also used this false information during their getting of the FSS status with the AKC. > It would be nice if the AKC could, once and for all time, remove
this fraud from their web site, as this FSS status has been used in the past by these people to scam people into believing these mixed-breed dogs are an officially recongized breed. > I don’t have the email for the FSS office, but if you email
> I haven’t hear back regarding my own email to them yesterday, but
I’ll be emailing them again today. And perhaps every couple of days, until I hear back about why they have this fraud listed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Dear Freddie Reitz- President of the Mi-Ki club USA, > > We could not help noticing your claim that a breed called the Mi-Ki > > originates from our country. We are pedigree dogs lovers and we are > > from Penang, Malaysia. We also understand that you have made this > > claim for the last 2-3 years. Please be informed that we do not have > > the Mi-Ki here in Penang and this breed DO NOT come from our country. > > We are also members of the Malaysian Kennel Association and after > > checking with them, they confirmed that your claim is baseless! > > After going through your past postings, we are really dissapointed > > with your insistence that the Mi-Ki still comes from Penang, Malaysia! > > We are taking this up with our local government and authorities. > > We have discussed this with the members of Canine Associations of > > our neighbouring countries i.e. Thailand, Philippines, Singapore > > and of course, The Canine Association of Western Australia. In fact, > > none of them have even heard of your breed. Please also note that > > our show judges are from Australia for the last 20 years at least > > and none of the judges have heard about the Mi-Ki from Penang! > > So, Mr Freddie Reitz, please get your facts right and stop getting > > our Penang involved in your claim! > > Best Regards, > > Vortilla Lim, > > Pulau Tikus, Penang, West Malaysia > > > Julie; > > > The proof you seek is contained in the Mi-Ki Club of America’s > > > supplemental historical pedigrees, which only club members have access > > > to. > > > Since you withdrew your membership application, you forfeited your > > > chance to view these documents. > > > Sorry- > > > Freddie > > > > Maureen Westberg’s daughter Deean denies ever bringing these dogs > > into > > > > this country from anywhere, let alone Penang. So, Mi-Ki Club of > > America > > > > – what is your explanation of this??? Your 2nd Vice President > > publicly > > > > stated that she did bring them from Penang. Unless you can prove > > > > her wrong, you should post a retraction or an explanation, for the > > legal > > > > record. > > > > My questions would stop if I would simply be provided with > > supportive > > > > documentation. Investigations would stop if evidence was provided > > that > > > > substantiated the claims made by the Mi-Ki Club of America and some > > of > > > > it’s members. This is all so basic. A legitimate > > organization/person > > > > could easily provide proof, and in fact would have done so long ago > > so > > > > as not to further tarnish the reputation of the breed in question. > > All > > > > of the documentation I have accumulated to date shows the Mi-Ki Club > > of > > > > America ignoring many legitimate questions, responding in an overly > > > > defiant manner, and not providing any legal documentation. Which > > leads > > > > any reasonably intelligent person to come to the conclusion that we > > all > > > > have already. > > > > Before you buy. > > Before you buy. > — > providing entertainment for small-minded gossipers since 1998
Before you buy.
Response:
> In my opinion, at some point it becomes irrelevant whether or not the
original Mi-Ki’s were ever heard of by anybody in Malaysia. > The foundation stock is there, and after some time a breed gets
established. But they have to BE a breed first. The "Mi-Ki" are YEARS away from being a breed. The "foundation stock", as you so generously put it, are so diverse in type that to call it a breed is absurd. How many years since the first "Anatolian Shepherds" were exported until they were recognized by anyone as a breed? Do they breed true? Do they at least resemble one another?? Mi-Ki do not. — Toni www.irish-wolfhounds.com e-mail Toni [at] irish-wolfhounds [dot] com
Response:
> > In my opinion, at some point it becomes irrelevant whether or not the > original Mi-Ki’s were ever heard of by anybody in Malaysia. > The foundation stock is there, and after some time a breed gets > established.
The difference is that in your example actual people were in an actual country and brought back actual dogs, all of which could be proven. This situation is that the whole story of the dogs coming from Penang is a lie. Freddie knows this as well. Which is why The Mi-Ki Club of America used to state on their website that the dogs "come from Penang" then changed it to believed to be from Penang and now it doesn’t state anything at all under country of origin. So, this proves that they know this story of Penang as the country of origin is a lie. Otherwise, they never would have changed their verage on their website, they would have held true to Country of Origin: Penang. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> But they have to BE a breed first. > The "Mi-Ki" are YEARS away from being a breed. > The "foundation stock", as you so generously put it, are so diverse in type > that to call it a breed is absurd. > How many years since the first "Anatolian Shepherds" were exported until > they were recognized by anyone as a breed? Do they breed true? Do they at > least resemble one another?? > Mi-Ki do not. > — > Toni > www.irish-wolfhounds.com > e-mail Toni [at] irish-wolfhounds [dot] com
Before you buy.
Response:
<snip confusion> Not to nitpick, but reread the post….. I did NOT relay the story….. merely commented on it. — Toni www.irish-wolfhounds.com e-mail Toni [at] irish-wolfhounds [dot] com
Response:
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